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Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty' (Read 30,432 times)
bbb_uk
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Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:11pm
 
Just read on The Register that government will be introducing a 50pcm landline duty on everyone even if all you have is broadband regardless of whether your with BT, Virgin or another supplier.

The actual consultation can be found [url="http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/consult_landlineduty.pdf"]here[/url].

My main gripe is those that have a landline only (no internet) will still have to pay even though the so-called tax is for super-fast broadband way, way in the future. Personally, I think this is unfair - basically taxing everyone even though they may not have, nor want/need, the internet!

Don't we get taxed enough in this country to add yet another tax!!
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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 8:14pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: Gov to introduct 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #1 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:10am
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:11pm:
Just read on [url="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/11/broadband_tax/"]The Register[/url] that government will be introducing a 50pcm landline duty on everyone even if all you have is broadband regardless of whether your with BT, Virgin or another supplier.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way you can have broadband only is on Virgin Media's cable network. Should we not be allowed ADSL only from BT (and other suppliers)?
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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:36am by Dave »  
 
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Re: Gov to introduct 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #2 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 2:49am
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:11pm:
Don't we get taxed enough in this country to add yet another tax!!
There are indeed many who would argue that broadband should only be provided to those who are prepared to pay the actual cost of providing it. They would make the case that those who live in rural areas should pay far more than those who live in towns because of the greater per unit cost of providing it. They may also argue that the same should apply to all other public services, or that there should be no public services and therefore no taxation.

The basic reason why we have a disturbingly high structural deficit is because taxation is too low in relation to spending.

This is no new announcement, the proposal has now reached the stage of a public consultation. The government argued in Stephen Carter's work "Digital Britain", which was published in the Summer, that this is most equitable way of raising the money necessary to subsidise broadband provision for the vast majority of the country, notably in areas where it would otherwise not be thought economic. There are other ways of raising the money, or it could be diverted from other areas of government spending (that would otherwise not be cut) in order to avoid additional taxation.

Respondents to the consultation are free to argue for no subsidy for broadband in rural areas, alternative ways of raising the money (e.g. by adding to borrowing) or perhaps for cuts in areas of spending that would not otherwise be cut. I would not expect to attract widespread public support for any of these suggestions. My personal view is that the benefits of widespread broadband usage as a worthy social measure demand more careful examination with reference to the direct and consequential ill effects.
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Re: Gov to introduct 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #3 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:20am
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:11pm:

My main gripe is those that have a landline only (no internet) will still have to pay even though the so-called tax is for super-fast broadband way, way in the future. Personally, I think this is unfair - basically taxing everyone even though they may not have, nor want/need, the internet!




Well, if you say we shouldn't pay  tax on the services we don't use, I might as well say, as I do not have children, why am I paying for education, children's services and contributing to child benefits? On your theory  I should have my income and council taxes reduced?
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #4 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:25am
 
Dave wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:10am:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way you can have broadband only is on Virgin Media's cable network. Should we not be allowed ADSL only from BT (and other suppliers)?
Personally, i think you should.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 2:49am:
There are indeed many who would argue that broadband should only be provided to those who are prepared to pay the actual cost of providing it. They would make the case that those who live in rural areas should pay far more than those who live in towns because of the greater per unit cost of providing it.
There is no easy, right answer to that.  Actually, I think everyone regardless of where you are should pay the same.  Some ADSL providers charge more if you're outside their 'area' than those that live inside their area.  This is mainly due to how their connected to the internet.

Quote:
The basic reason why we have a disturbingly high structural deficit is because taxation is too low in relation to spending.
That is technically true but the deficit became even more disturbingly high due to gov bailing (nearly) all the banks out.  Going by what I read banks took a lot of risks because they were able to and unhindered from gov, all in the name of higher bonuses.

Quote:
This is no new announcement, the proposal has now reached the stage of a public consultation. The government argued in Stephen Carter's work "Digital Britain", which was published in the Summer, that this is most equitable way of raising the money necessary to subsidise broadband provision for the vast majority of the country, notably in areas where it would otherwise not be thought economic.
My main problem is that those that have a landline only and don't want/need broadband are also forced to pay.

Oh and why is it called a landline duty when I thought the term 'broadband duty' would be more fitting as it is only those that will benefit?
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #5 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:33am
 
sherbert wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:20am:
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 11th, 2009 at 10:11pm:

My main gripe is those that have a landline only (no internet) will still have to pay even though the so-called tax is for super-fast broadband way, way in the future. Personally, I think this is unfair - basically taxing everyone even though they may not have, nor want/need, the internet!




Well, if you say we shouldn't pay  tax on the services we don't use, I might as well say, as I do not have children, why am I paying for education, children's services and contributing to child benefits? On your theory  I should have my income and council taxes reduced?
I think most people would ideally like this but we all know it's not going to happen but surely there comes a point in time when it should stop.

Would it not be a little fairer to have the tax on those that actually use broadband?
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #6 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 11:59am
 
I guess the problem is, for example, if you did not have  broadband and did not pay the new levy. When you decide to have  broadband a few years later, you will be getting broadband at the expense of others.
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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:00pm by sherbert »  
 
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #7 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:51pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:25am:
Quote:
The basic reason why we have a disturbingly high structural deficit is because taxation is too low in relation to spending.
That is technically true but the deficit became even more disturbingly high due to gov bailing (nearly) all the banks out.  Going by what I read banks took a lot of risks because they were able to and unhindered from gov, all in the name of higher bonuses.

Sorry to press the technical point, but the "structural deficit" (which is the main cause for concern) exists regardless of the bank bail-outs.


bbb_uk wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:25am:
My main problem is that those that have a landline only and don't want/need broadband are also forced to pay.

The whole point of the tax is to raise money for those who could not meet the full economic cost of them being provided with broadband to be able to get it. It is, in effect, an enforced cross-subsidy within the telecoms sector. As has been said elsewhere, if only those who benefited from an item of public spending paid the tax to fund it, the whole exercise would be utterly pointless.


bbb_uk wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:25am:
Oh and why is it called a landline duty when I thought the term 'broadband duty' would be more fitting as it is only those that will benefit?

The name chosen is unusually honest, as it refers to where the tax will hurt, rather than hinting at the benefit that it is supposed to deliver. I have not checked this out in Carter, but there may be the potential for this tax to be used to fund further investment in other new telecoms technologies. Taxing legacy operations to fund the new is an effective way of forcing any industry to move forward. Have not similar approaches been considered in relation to energy sources.
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #8 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:53pm
 
sherbert wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 11:59am:
I guess the problem is, for example, if you did not have  broadband and did not pay the new levy. When you decide to have  broadband a few years later, you will be getting broadband at the expense of others.
Is that why we get taxed to pay for those with children (to use your example) just in case you decide to have kids later?  So that makes it okay and right then does it?  Same could be said for all the things our taxes go towards that I may never need/use, etc lol

This is turning very political i think lol

Another example is, what this website is about with regards to use of 08x numbers, is that it's okay to tax everyone because it's being used for something else.  The money made from phone calls to these numbers are used for something else (either to increase profits or subsidise the cost of a telephone system) so does that mean that it's okay to ring 08x numbers?

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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 1:01pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #9 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 1:17pm
 
The thing is, we know that this 50 pence a month  levy is just another form of taxation. Do we really believe it is going to be used to improve the broadband network? Anymore than the road tax is going towards improving roads,  our national insurance contributions goes towards improving hospitals etc. I notice council tax will be rising about 4% next year and the councils will be cutting the services, so therefore we are going to have to pay more dosh for nothing.

Yes I agree we are getting a bit political here, however sadly we just  have pay up when asked. Angry

There is no point in ending it all to avoid these taxes as we even get taxed on death Grin
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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 1:18pm by sherbert »  
 
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #10 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 2:37pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:53pm:
This is turning very political i think lol

To be fair, I think that the political tone for the discussion was set by the final sentence of the initial posting.

bbb_uk wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 12:53pm:
Another example is, what this website is about with regards to use of 08x numbers, is that it's okay to tax everyone because it's being used for something else.  The money made from phone calls to these numbers are used for something else (either to increase profits or subsidise the cost of a telephone system) so does that mean that it's okay to ring 08x numbers?

I think this point is being made the wrong way around, certainly in respect of the public sector.

The amount of revenue share earned from 084x numbers can do little more than subsidise the cost of the telephone service. It certainly cannot go on to pay for the time of the person speaking in response to the call. That is where the significant difference between 08 and 09 numbers resides. Both are worthy of the title "premium rate" as the same mechanism is engaged, however the difference between subsidy and direct profit is significant.

Without the revenue share, all of the costs incurred in handling the telephone call would have to come from someone other than the caller. In the case of public services funded by taxation that is the taxpayer. When the issue is examined directly, it is the taxpayer who benefits from public sector use of 084x numbers (notwithstanding the profiteering of many telephone companies). Those who campaign for use of revenue sharing numbers to be halted are asking for all of the cost burden associated with handling the call to be removed from the caller.

There may be those amongst us who would rather that public services moved onto using 09 numbers, so that the premium charge was at least a little more transparent. Most significantly it would mean that service users paid more towards the cost of providing the services they use. Those who avoid premium charges by using alternatives published on saynoto0870 are effectively moving the burden  of paying for the service they are using from themselves back onto others. In the case of the public sector that is taxpayers, in the private sector it is other customers and the shareholders of the company.

If we are going to do politics here, let us at least understand what it is that we are asking for when we invite people to "SayNoto0870".
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #11 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 5:02pm
 
sherbert wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 1:17pm:
The thing is, we know that this 50 pence a month  levy is just another form of taxation. Do we really believe it is going to be used to improve the broadband network? Anymore than the road tax is going towards improving roads,  our national insurance contributions goes towards improving hospitals etc. I notice council tax will be rising about 4% next year and the councils will be cutting the services, so therefore we are going to have to pay more dosh for nothing.

Yes I agree we are getting a bit political here, however sadly we just  have pay up when asked. Angry

There is no point in ending it all to avoid these taxes as we even get taxed on death Grin
I agree with everything you mention  Wink


SilentCallsVictim wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 2:37pm:
To be fair, I think that the political tone for the discussion was set by the final sentence of the initial posting.
I suppose, to be fair, it was me that initiated it so I will give the political debate a miss as this forum isn't really about politics.  That and the fact that it could go on forever lol.

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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 5:03pm by bbb_uk »  
 
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #12 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 5:26pm
 
'High speed broadband' (whatever that means) for everyone by 2017 indeed!

The Conservatives have said that, if they get in at the General Election (June 2010 or before), they will scrap this tax anyway.
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« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2009 at 9:42pm by Heinz »  

After years of ignoring govt. guidelines & RIPPING OFF Council Tax payers using 0845 numbers, Essex County Council changed to 0345 numbers on 2 November 2015
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #13 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 8:16pm
 
Heinz wrote on Dec 12th, 2009 at 5:26pm:
I think the link to The Register article in the OP is broken so HERE it is again.
Link corrected, thanks.

Quote:
The Conservatives have said that, if they get in at the General Election (June 2010 or before), they will scrap this tax anyway.
but according to the report, they haven't confirmed it  Grin
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Re: Gov to introduce 50pcm tax - 'landline duty'
Reply #14 - Dec 12th, 2009 at 8:29pm
 


Quote:
The Conservatives have said that, if they get in at the General Election (June 2010 or before), they will scrap this tax anyway.
but according to the report, they haven't confirmed it  Grin
[/quote]


From yesterday's Financial Times.

The Conservatives are opposed to the tax. Jeremy Hunt, shadow culture secretary, said the Tories would look to abolish the levy, although the opposition party has not made a firm commitment to do so.
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