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BT Evening period changes - April 2010 (Read 38,707 times)
sherbert
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BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Jan 28th, 2010 at 5:29pm
 
This is a bit sneaky......

We are also making some changes to your BT service.


We'd also like to make you aware of some changes to our prices, terms and conditions, effective from 1st April 2010. These include changing what we define as the evening call period for all types of calls: at the moment from 6pm-6am, but changing to 7pm-7am.


Also I note that they are not  advertising the inclusive evening calls on their web site

http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerProducts/displayCategory.do?catego...



~ Edited by Dave: Thread title amended
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« Last Edit: Jan 29th, 2010 at 5:33pm by Dave »  
 
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: BT
Reply #1 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 3:28pm
 
sherbert wrote on Jan 28th, 2010 at 5:29pm:
This is a bit sneaky......

An article in the Guardian and a conversation with BT confirms a three-pronged approach to encouraging yet more customers to move onto the Unlimited Anytime Plan.

1. The effective shortening of the useful time when the evening plan is in effect
2. Increasing the charges (per minute and setup) for non-inclusive calls.
3. A special offer (3 months free) on the Unlimited Anytime plan.

I am assured that the absence of the Unlimited Evening and Weekend plan from the website is not indicative of its forthcoming demise. In fact it is still available as a free upgrade for Unlimited Weekend customers who commit to a 12 month contract. The fact that this feature of a 12 month contract for the Unllimited Weekend plan is not mentioned is a further indication of BT's attempts to push Unlimited Anytime.

The latest breakdown of subscriptions by the 13M BT residential customers is said to be-
Anytime: 2M, Evening and Weekend: 4.7M, Weekend: 5.3M, Other (BT Basic etc.): 1M

(Apologies for any pedantry seen in correcting the subject, which was nearly 20 years out of date)
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sherbert
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Re: British Telecom
Reply #2 - Jan 29th, 2010 at 5:26pm
 
Thanks for the clarification and research  SCV Smiley

I have to say that was one of the first posts that you have made that I could actually understand through out!!!!!!! Grin
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jrawle
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #3 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 3:29pm
 
I finally received the long awaited e-mail today. What a rip-off BT have become! Aside from the definition of evening calls, their standard call rate is now 10p+6p/min! It's actually cheaper to make 3-minute calls from my PAYG mobile during the daytime!

Of course, on the rare occasion I have to make daytime calls, I use 18185 and pay 5p. This will now apply to any calls I have to make before 7pm. We should campaign loudly so that people know about such services. As we know, if they are using BT, prefixes have to be allowed by law. No-one should ever pay BT's rip-off daytime date!

I would consider switching my landline provider, but am concerned about not being able to use prefixes any more. I'm also concerned that it will muck up my broadband (which is with a third party supplier I'm 100% happy with). The only time I tried moving a landline between suppliers, the phone was dead for about two weeks! I'm sure this isn't typical, but even if the line is transferred seamlessly, does an ADSL connection just stay on the same line as if nothing had changed, or does it have the potential for the connection to be lost? Does anyone have any experience?
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #4 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:25pm
 
jrawle wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 3:29pm:
No-one should ever pay BT's rip-off daytime date!

Yes, that is the whole point; BT would agree with this statement.

Clearly some will be disadvantaged and odd effects will be created in the process, but the whole idea behind this sequence of tariff changes (a continuing 30% per annum price hike) is to eliminate call charges for ordinary calls. Some people do not use their landline during the day, so there is a distinction between "Anytime" and "Evening and Weekend", although the terms of this concession have now been narrowed. Those who only make the odd daytime call pay what I call a "penalty rate", also described as a "rip-off". This is part of BT's undisguised (and somewhat bullying) efforts to get people to stop paying for each ordinary call that they make.

For those who make regular weekday daytime calls - Anytime is the BT product. Calculations are difficult because there are two elements in the non-inclusive charge, but simple examples are relatively easy. If you made at least one 3-minute daytime call on each of the 20 weekdays in a month this would cost £5.60, so it would be worthwhile to subscribe to Anytime at £4.99. To beat 18185, one would need to make an average of more than 5 calls per weekday.

For many there is also the important psychological element - once having decided to go for an inclusive package one does not have to think about the cost of each ordinary call, unless it goes on beyond 60 minutes. Our engagement on this site may mean that we are happy to think about the cost of everything that we do very carefully, however I suspect that most people would rather spend their minute by minute energies on other things.

One does however, quite rightly, have to think about the cost of calls to premium rate numbers (I include 0844, assuming that the present mess with 0845 will shortly be resolved). That is as it should be, those who offer premium rate services should be proud of the fact and happy to be judged on the basis of the value for money that they offer!

I support the principle of what BT is trying to achieve, although the method has to be somewhat heavy-handed. The way that we pay for usage of the telephone system has grown up as it has for a variety of reasons, not least because call billing technology was implemented as an inherent (and costly) feature from the early days. The total costs have now fallen sufficiently so that (essentially) unlimited access can be provided to all, without concerns about this being unacceptably inequitable. Apart from special provision for low volume and disadvantaged users, it is now reasonable to start moving away from charging according to what you use. Complications remain with access to mobile phones, because of the arrangement under which callers subsidise what would otherwise be "line rental". In time this could be resolved and the cost of international calls could also fall sufficiently to be handled similarly.

Whilst premium rate services remain (as I suspect that they will) they will have to be treated separately because this is an arrangement between the caller and the particular person being called, with the telco simply acting as an intermediary, (just a delivery agent) providing only part of the service.
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« Last Edit: Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:54pm by SilentCallsVictim »  
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Dave
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #5 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:38pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:25pm:
Clearly some will be disadvantaged and odd effects will be created, but the whole idea behind this is to elimate call charges for ordinary calls. Some people do not use their landline during the day, so there is a distinction between "Anytime" and "Evenings and Weekends". This means that those who only make the odd daytime call pay what I call a "penalty rate", also described as a "rip-off". This is all part of BT's undisguised (and somewhat bullying)efforts to get people to stop paying for each ordinary call that they make.

The so-called "penalty rate" has always been used by mobile providers where they offer bundled minutes. That is, the "per minute" charges outside of allowances are higher than the equivalent pence per minute of those within them. They are broadly the same as basic pay as you go charges. If they were lower, then there would be less incentive to switch to an allowance with more minutes.
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #6 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:40pm
 
Has BT announced an increase in line rental at this time?

I have mentioned here that Virgin will include calls to Virgin Mobile numbers but although labelled as free, it coincides with what looks like a line rental increase to £11.99.

Now this line rental increase will mean, unless BT also increase their line rental charges (and they probably will), then Virgin will have a more expensive line rental charge than BT!
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sherbert
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #7 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:49pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:40pm:
Has BT announced an increase in line rental at this time?



Not according to the email I got from them today, I see no mention of that


(sorry about the previous two posts, something went wrong Embarrassed)
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« Last Edit: Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:50pm by sherbert »  
 
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sherbert
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #8 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:53pm
 
Here is part of the email that BT sent....



Changes to home phone calling plan prices in April 2010.

  Daytime and Evening call period.


From 1st April 2010 we will be changing the evening call period: currently from 6pm-6am, changing to 7pm-7am. As a result, calls made between 7pm and 7am will be charged at the evening rate. This change will affect all call types, including calls to mobiles, international numbers and 0845 and 0870 numbers. If you are on the Unlimited Evening & Weekend Plan, your inclusive calls will start at 7pm instead of 6pm.


Call set-up fee.


From 1st April 2010, the call set-up fee for non-inclusive calls from landlines and for non-inclusive Broadband Talk calls will increase from 9.3p to 9.9p per call. The existing call set-up fee of 3p per call for BT Basic, Light User Scheme and In-Contact Plus customers remains unchanged.
Call set-up fees will not apply to:


• Inclusive weekend calls for customers on the Unlimited Weekend Plan.
   
• Inclusive evening and weekend calls for customers on the Unlimited Evening & Weekend Plan or the Broadband Talk Evening & Weekend Plan.
   
• Inclusive any time calls on the Unlimited Anytime Plan or the Broadband Talk Anytime Plan.
   
• Calls to Freephone services and other inclusive calls not mentioned above.


Daytime UK calls.


From 1st April 2010, the cost of UK landline calls made during the daytime will increase from 5.4 pence per minute to 5.9 pence per minute. This change does not apply to BT Basic, Light User Scheme and In-Contact Plus customers. The changes to the evening call period, set-up fee and daytime UK landline call price do not affect inclusive calls of up to an hour made with the Unlimited Anytime Plan.




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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #9 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 6:47pm
 
bbb_uk wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:40pm:
Has BT announced an increase in line rental at this time?

No.

BT has just launched a "three months free" offer on the Anytime call plan and confirmed that the free upgrade from "Weekend" to "Evening and Weekend" remains in place for those who commit to a 12 month contract.

These only apply to new and upgrading customers of course. This (unnecessarily early) announcement is clearly about getting more people to upgrade. The option remains for a price increase to be announced once this has been achieved - could BT be that cynical?

P.S. A note on the figures in my previous posting. The cost differential between "Anytime" and "Evening and Weekend" is only £2 after the first year (when "Weekend" does not really exist as a sensible option). This means that for those past their first year who have reverted to "Weekend", one could include some evening calls in the calculation of what is necessary to make Anytime worthwhile. If paying for "Evening and Weekend", it only takes at least one daytime call of any duration on each of the 20 working days in a month (or one 7-minute weekday daytime call per week) to make the upgrade worthwhile (for the first year this upgrade only costs, on average, £0.75 per month = a single 11-minute weekday daytime call per month).

(The point of these figures is not to indicate how cheap or expensive BT is, but simply to indicate that if choosing BT one is pressed to chose Anytime. The significant point being that BT's "penalty rates" are exceptional and not a valid point of reference for call charge comparisons.
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #10 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 9:15pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:25pm:
Yes, that is the whole point; BT would agree with this statement..


But for many people, they are rarely at home during the daytime on weekdays, so it makes no sense to pay for inclusive calls then. It's the rare occasion people find themselves at home (phoning to chase up that delivery they were waiting at home for, Bank Holiday Monday, etc.) that they may need to make a call. This could be a few a year.

Obviously, if people do make a lot of daytime calls, inclusive calls might make sense, even before BT's rip-off price rises.

Incidentally, no-one has answered my other questions. Do other providers block codes such as 18185, and does changing phone provider interrupt ADSL broadband?
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bbb_uk
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #11 - Feb 1st, 2010 at 9:43pm
 
jrawle wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 9:15pm:
Do other providers block codes such as 18185
Some do.  I know Sky do and I believe TalkTalk and I assume a few others but not sure.  Maybe someone could clarify this?

Quote:
and does changing phone provider interrupt ADSL broadband?
Not certain.  Changing CPS providers then highly unlikely but if changing landline providers then I guess maybe.  Someone will need to clarify this as well.

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #12 - Feb 2nd, 2010 at 12:57am
 
jrawle wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 9:15pm:
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 5:25pm:
Yes, that is the whole point; BT would agree with this statement..

But for many people, they are rarely at home during the daytime on weekdays, so it makes no sense to pay for inclusive calls then. It's the rare occasion people find themselves at home (phoning to chase up that delivery they were waiting at home for, Bank Holiday Monday, etc.) that they may need to make a call. This could be a few a year.

Exactly, that is why there are cheaper alternative packages for those who only make calls during Evenings and / or Weekends.
Whether it is fair that people should incur a penalty for rare or exceptional behaviour is an interesting moral point. The favouring of majorities is what consumerism delivers; I would not argue against it being applied in this case.

The suggestion that the occasions on which a customer would incur these penalties "could be a few a year” helps to make what I refer to as being the significant point.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 6:47pm:
BT's "penalty rates" are exceptional and not a valid point of reference for call charge comparisons.

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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #13 - Feb 3rd, 2010 at 11:16am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 2nd, 2010 at 12:57am:
Exactly, that is why there are cheaper alternative packages for those who only make calls during Evenings and / or Weekends.
Whether it is fair that people should incur a penalty for rare or exceptional behaviour is an interesting moral point. The favouring of majorities is what consumerism delivers; I would not argue against it being applied in this case.

I don't have an objection to the current system, where it's possible to have free calls at evenings and weekends, and just pay extra on the rare occasion a daytime call is necessary. I thought you were saying that BT are trying to stop people taking calls packages other than the "anytime" package. This is what I would object to, as I don't want to pay for inclusive calls at a time I'm unlikely to use them.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 1st, 2010 at 6:47pm:
BT's "penalty rates" are exceptional and not a valid point of reference for call charge comparisons.

Perhaps a better way to compare services is now for features other than the price. For example, anyone who works all day but likes to come home at 6pm and talk on the phone for an hour or so would now certainly be better off with a service that has a more reasonable definition of the evening.
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Re: BT Evening period changes - April 2010
Reply #14 - Feb 3rd, 2010 at 11:20am
 
jrawle wrote on Feb 3rd, 2010 at 11:16am:
Perhaps a better way to compare services is now for features other than the price. For example, anyone who works all day but likes to come home at 6pm and talk on the phone for an hour or so would now certainly be better off with a service that has a more reasonable definition of the evening.


Remember from April 1st that is changing to 7pm
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