What are you trying to imply, that this site is a waste of time? Of course, the exact answer will depend what tariff you are on. Many people don't pay for geographical calls, so it'll cost them no extra if they call a blocked number (and this is assuming the companies have replaced the number with a recorded message - if it's simply disconnected you won't pay anyway).

I have to say, I have never found myself in the situation you describe. The database isn't perfect, some numbers are found to be either not connected or go through to the wrong department, but I've never known a number play a message.

Any numbers that no longer work should be reported so that they can be removed from the database. Then no-one else has to make a wasted call.

ScarletPimpernel wrote on Feb 8^th, 2010 at 2:32pm:

Hello and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

The removal of the framework for revenue sharing on 0870 means that any originating call provider that hasn't reduced its retail call rates, in effect, imposed a price increase in real terms on 1 August 2009 when the 0870 changes took effect.

The original idea behind this website was to list alternatives to 0870 numbers, as the name implies. But 0844 is the new 0870!


As for which number you should dial; it's down to your tariff. A "freephone" number is charged at a premium by mobile operators, so some look for alternatives to them.

ScarletPimpernel wrote on Feb 8^th, 2010 at 4:40pm:

There's no guarantee as to how long the call will take to be answered on the 01/02 number or whether this is the same as, or longer or shorter than calling the published 08xx number.


ScarletPimpernel wrote on Feb 8^th, 2010 at 4:40pm:

As I say, there's no guarantees and quite obviously, a call may be handled in a different way.

I don't intend to get into any discussion about whether the same "fancy" or "advanced" services can be provided on 01/02 numbers. The purpose of this website is not to oppose the use of such services. It is the premium carried with any 084x call that is the bone of contention.

Organisations that use these numbers frequently trot off the line that "Ah well, we need a 0845 number so we can route calls here there and everywhere." That doesn't justify levying a charge directly to the caller (other than his/her "normal" phone call rate).

Which is what 03 numbers are; prior to their introduction, I am not aware of any organisation, small or large, that called on the introduction of these neutrally charged non-geographic numbers (apart from consumer pressure in the form of SAYNOTO0870.COM). At that time, the 084x users had their noses in the trough (many still do), having their callers pick up the tab for the "advanced" features which are so often proclaimed as being necessary. As I say, whether they are necessary or not my interest. It's the covert charging arrangement that leads people to this website in the form of the high retail call they are subjected to.


ScarletPimpernel wrote on Feb 8^th, 2010 at 4:40pm:

Like many 084x revenue sharing number users, the justification for passing a covert charge back to your customers (callers) is because you need the "advanced" technology. The two things are totally separate; particularly now we have 03 numbers.

Also, with many who use these numbers they don't talk about the they levy on callers directly through use of these phone numbers, let alone explain to them why this is necessary.


Either:

1. You are happy to derive subsidy (financial benefit) from your customers/callers without declaring it and when challenged, justify use of 084x numbers solely because of their operational benefits.
2. You are happy to declare you make a charge for all telephone contact through a 084x number, but you've not mentioned this fact yet in your posting on this forum.
3. You are in ignorance of the subsidy your telephone provider derives from your customers/callers.

So which is it?

H'mmmm I see where this is going and I'm not sure the lalalala I can't hear you arguement is particularly valid.

you say

I don't intend to get into any discussion about whether the same "fancy" or "advanced" services can be provided on 01/02 numbers. The purpose of this website is not to oppose the use of such services. It is the premium carried with any 084x call that is the bone of contention.

Why not get into the discussion, if the premium for calling 084x numbers is less than calling a 01xx number (overall costs) surely it makes sense to call the 084x number. If you just blindly hate the 084x numbers becuase companies make money off the public calling them, but offer a better service which means a lower cost to the customer, surely you are doing everyone a dis-service by encouraging them to cal the 01xx number. I'm sure it's not your intention to make more money for the telco's but that is actually what you are doing.

So either:
1. You are happy to generate more cost to the customers and fill the pockets of the telco's
2. You hate 084x blindly
3. You don't really understand how call routing works?
4. This website generates you income from advertising and sales?

So which is it?


I'm happy to agree that using 01xx numbers is much better when calling a small company that only has 1 call centre, as long as you are open minded enough to agree that where multiple site locations / agent skills sets are present it MAY make more sense in calling a 084x number.

Regards

SP.

There are some simple matters of fact to get nailed down and (hopefully) removed from the main discussion.

• Where a 084x number simply routes to a single geo number, it is simply making money for the recipient. That is the classic situation which the database of alternative numbers is intended to deal with.
• When making a weekday daytime call under the terms of the BT weekends or evenings and weekends call plan, it is cheaper to call a 084x number than a 01/02/03 number. That is a perverse and unique situation. It applies to no other provider and is likely not to survive for very much longer.
• Apart from the situation described above it is always more expensive to call a call type g6 0844 number than a 01/02/03 number - all providers, all tariffs, all times.
• There are some situations where weekday daytime calls to 0845 numbers are no more expensive; however they are invariably more expensive from Virgin Media landlines, public payphones and all PAYG and contract mobiles.

Having set out these points, I will step aside (at least for the moment) to let the primary combatants resume battle.

P.S. This posting has been rendered largely redundant by a blow (#8) having been struck whiclst it was being prepared.

Yes (given appropriate qualification).

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Feb 9^th, 2010 at 4:35pm:

BT should indicate that its charges for calling otherwise inclusive numbers when outside the period covered by a call plan, include an element of "penalty". This may be helpful to those who have not recognised that these charges have been increased at a steady anual rate of 30% for the last two years.