Both 0845 and local calls are now both a ripoff by some suppliers.

Many forms say something like "BT charge a local call rate 2p per min, others may charge more".

To my horror I find that Virgin charge 7.5 p for both 0845 AND local calls.  This charge crept up on me without obvious notification (although it was probably hidden in some marketing bumf for cable TV channels).  When I started, local calls were 1 p per minute.  It now seems that they are charging 5.5p ABOVE BT charges.

Calls to 0845 tax office etc. now cost an absolute fortune for no information.  You think it is a local call rate - but pay full national and more.

This looks like unscrupulous trading to me.  Can OFCOM do anything to stop it?

Hello and welcome to SAYNOTO0870.COM.

There is much confusion and misunderstanding about this and there is not a simple answer or explanation.

All calls to all 0845 numbers carry a Service Charge or premium which is passed to the receiving party via its telephone provider. Call providers (i.e. the telcos we make our calls with) generally pass this Service Charge on to callers and add their own mark-up (known as an Access Charge).

BT's situation is different as it is not allowed to levy an Access Charge, and thus its retail call rates are atypical of those in general as it only bills callers to the value of the Service Charge.

When the 0845 numbers were first introduced, most people made their calls with BT. At that time BT charged local geographic calls at lower rates to national geographic ones. It was decided that BT would charge 0845 calls at the same rate as local geographic ones. It was also decided that this retail charge would be passed to the benefit of the receiver (via its telco), so BT wasn't allowed to make a profit on these calls. These are regulations which still apply now.

It is therefore still the case today that BT does not profit (as a call originator) on these calls. So the "others may vary" and "others may charge more" you see is in fact wrong and it is BT which charges less.


There is a current consultation (now in extra time) which is looking at what to do with this. The removal of the said regulations are a distinct possibility as the majority of callers are no longer with BT.

I hope that Ofcom will introduce the much needed clarity that all users of 084 (and 0871/2/3/09) numbers benefit financially from callers and to what degree. That way they will be forced to stop presenting BT's call rates as if they were the norm, and we would all be able to see what is happening at present which is that banks, insurance companies and the tax office, to name but a few, impose a Service Charge of 2 pence per minute on all callers.

Grimpiper wrote on Mar 12^th, 2011 at 9:00am:

On most tariffs, local and national calls are the same rate. By definition, there can only be one "local rate" and one "national rate" for any subsriber at any one time. 0845 is not "local rate"!

Grimpiper wrote on Mar 12^th, 2011 at 10:53am:

It's nearly seven years since BT scrapped it "BT Standard" tariff which was the last mainstream residential offering that had differing local and national call rates. You will be pushed to find such a tariff to get on these days.


There is another effect that telephone users should be aware of and that is the reduction in anytime inclusive packages combined with the sky-rocketing of charges for non-inclusive geographic (and 03) calls. This is something that is happening with landline providers in general and means that less and less non-inclusive (chargeable) calls need be made in order to make it financially worthwhile to subscribe to one's provider's anytime inclusive package.

Thus, charges for non-inclusive geographic and 03 calls are in effect a penalty for making calls outside the hours of inclusivity.

I recieved the following reponse from South Eastern Railway when I asked they if they had any intention of changing their 0845 number to an 0345 one.

"Thank you for your website comment which we received on 4 March 2011.

We have no immediate plans to change our telephone prefix. In general, we find the 0845 number more beneficial to our customers, as opposed to the 0345 number, based on the following rates.

Calls to an 0845 number from a standard BT landline cost the caller:

•      3.36ppm (peak)
•      1.26ppm (evening)
•      0.85ppm (weekend)

Calls to a 03 number from a standard BT landline cost your caller:

•      4.16p (peak)
•      1.70p (evening)
•      1.00p (weekend)

We have however recorded your comments for when our telephone prefix is reviewed in the future. "

Yet again they quote BT's rates as if it is the norm for anyone calling them to be on BT!

poppasmuf,

with regards to GreenFlag they are part of Direct Line who insist on using 0845 numbers for every department (much like Tesco), so I am not shocked by what you have been told.

Out of interest there is an 01 number for breakdowns: http://www.greenflag.com/contactus.html just scroll down.

bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 2:07pm:


Thanks. Yes, I know there are alternatives and I used an 0800 number to call them. It's just that the woman I was talking to originally told me she couldn't help me and I HAD to call an 0845 number. She was most insistent that there was no alternative to doing so.  It's just that I was on my mission to tell her I couldn't and wouldn't call premium rate numbers under any circumstances, and finished up saying to her that her company had lost my business because of it.

bazzerfewi wrote on Mar 13^th, 2011 at 5:15pm:


You are right. It's just that she was so insistent that I HAD to call an 0845 number and there was no alternative, when I had a letter in my hand giving an 0800 number for queries, which I had initially missed.

But it reminds me of when I ran my own publishing company. When I had someone on the phone who was being awkward, and I was being even more awkward to them, and they wanted to know who owned the company, I told them it was owned by me - Ebeneezer Golightly Gruntfutock, and they could write to me if they wished to complain!!!