SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 10:15am:
I suspect they are referring to 0844 numbers that allow access to cheaper international calls, or more likely, any underlying geographical for these 0844 numbers.

Getting back to VM, they appear to be the only ones doing this as far as I can tell and hopefully we will find out why/how they are doing it.

Although I suspect they may want to keep this as quiet as possible.

Heinz wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2011 at 2:32pm:

... That is the question!

BT does confuse matters by treating 0870 and 0845 in the same way as geographic numbers in some contexts. Looking at published statements, it may be that it is these which are addressed by an exclusion of Indirect Access Numbers from the terms of inclusive Call Plans.


In theory, there could be a reason to penalise BT callers who call 01/02/03 "dial-through to 0800" numbers, as BT is losing the benefit of the negative termination fee it would have received had the 0800 number been dialled directly. On the other hand, there is no reason why anyone would use this indirect means of calling a 0800 number from BT, unless (as I have proposed) the dial-through number was being operated for the benefit of a charity, rather than for commercial gain.

The important point is that BT declares calls to these numbers as being excluded from the terms of inclusive packages and those who call them are aware that they are calling a "special" number, which may fairly be understood to be used for "indirect access".

All is perhaps not quite as clear as it could be, however this is totally different from the particular case being addressed primarily by this thread.

I think this is a similar experience to one I have just encountered so instead of starting a new thread I'll add my comment here. 

I have just called healthy Living Direct using the geographical number supplied by saynoto0870, and asking for the HL customer care as advised once I was connected.  But before I was transferred an automated message said the call would be charged at 10p per min!  Then I was put thorough to another dept and again I was told that the call would be charged at 10p per min.  I was very surprised that an 0871 charge can be applied in this way when I called a geographical number.  I shall read with interest any comments.

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2011 at 5:29pm:
Have you heard anything over this yet?

I have just heard from Virgin Media that the investigation has been concluded and the issue has been resolved.

In my words, the story is as follows:

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It is with some relief that we can reaffirm the principle that you pay for the call to the number that you dial.

I will be issuing a media release and notifying Ofcom. As the error has apparently been corrected and remedied, it may be of little concern.

The dismissive initial approach from billing enquiries personnel (which is now seen to have been mistaken) does however warrant some comment. Any grounds used for maintaining the charge were clearly ill founded.

Thanks are due to rfctabs, and others for having raised the issue. Without their efforts, Virgin Media would perhaps not have had the opportunity to identify this error and make the necessary corrections.

(I will be referring to this discussion thread as I draw public attention to this issue. Moderators and members may wish to take note.)

nicholas43 wrote on Sep 20^th, 2011 at 9:22am:

The bottom line is that VM is responsible for the accuracy of its billing, so it must have done something wrong.

Whether or not other parties are in some way to blame and the precise nature of the failing within VM are not matters of any great concern to me. Issues of internal discipline and relationships with other companies are properly confidential - responsibility has to be carried at the corporate level.

Ofcom may decide to delve deeply into the reasons for the error - I have presented a number of reasons why it should look into the matter. Others are free to lobby Ofcom to conduct a thorough investigation.

I hope that VM will issue a statement if the issue is covered by the media, following a release that I will issue later today (I am awaiting comments from Tesco). Others are free to press VM for an explanation, and to challenge any statement that is made.

I understand that representatives of Virgin Media are following this thread. This is an open forum; they are free to comment here if they think it appropriate. (I would not myself press them to do so.)

Thank you SCV for taking the time to have this sorted and corrected.

Without your knowledge and persistence, I doubt this would have been sorted as quickly as it was, if at all.

You could 'Reverse Engineer' anything, but in this case, never.

You know what I think? It's simple, this was some engineer or systems-geek looking to go home early!

Well. ask yourself, could it be an active move on Virgin's part to over-bill. Certainly not. Why would it be... it would not be worth the corporate effort and PR disaster when it comes out.

I'm an ex-telephone engineer and although that was near 24 years ago, I rememer, I made some monumental c*ck-ups. We all did. I suspect not a lot has changed, largely becasue your 'actual' engineer at heart, hasn't. Engineers, like any other profession - we're a breed.

What do I mean by this? Call-logic. metering and switching was damned complex in my day, and it has to be far more intense now, and given the choice of an early tea-break or sweating and head-scratching over call-logic, switching or porting it right, I'll bet I know what happened.

A quick-fix was done, a few key presses on a porting desk, and "Tomorrow is another day", out the door...

Careless... yes.
Knowingly Slapdash?... Could be?.
Incompetent... Probably.
A simple error.. Likley.
POETSday? Definitely.

And that Engineers "go-home-early" quick-fix works too, if you don't try to circumvent it, by dialing 01.

But real malevolence. Nope. Not ever.

More likely , Chelsea were playing at home.

Here's a mildly amusing foul-up from 1982: A young apprentice mis-soldered the MDF (a massive cable termianation block) such that 50 odd lines were linked together. Thus a call to any one of them, rang the lot. This caused chaos, until we found it.

Another time we did much the same thing, this time, quite  deliberatly to two rival publicans that hated each other. Got the operators to voice a 'opeartor connected' call, one to other. Then initiated a call, going back the other way. And so that we were all privy to the furore,  we hooked up the calls over the switch-room Tannoy.

We'd hook the unsuspecting, up to the weird and wonderful, the Tokyo speaking clock was a favourite.

Engineers larking about.


Of course, we worried about the billing...