SAYNOTO0870.COM - Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?

Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls? Reply #90 - Nov 6^th, 2011 at 10:55am Here is another report (on MSE) of someone being charged for a call to a mobile number when they dialled a local number to ring a Tesco supermarket.
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CJT-80 Global Moderator Offline Posts: 1,714 Manchester Gender:	Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls? Reply #91 - Nov 6^th, 2011 at 11:55am Dave, Searching for the number listed on the MSE post, it seems it's associated or has been associated with something called Noodle Chat and is/was excluded from some mobile networks included minutes
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bigjohn

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #92 - Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:32am

CJT-80 wrote on Nov 6^th, 2011 at 11:55am:

Dave,

Searching for the number listed on the MSE post, it seems it's associated or has been associated with something called Noodle Chat and is/was excluded from some mobile networks included minutes

The now defunct Noodle who were a cheap intl call provider did have some numbers in the 07822 range, but the 078228 number referred to is a number allocated to Cable and Wireless Tescos Supplier.

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« Last Edit: Nov 7^th, 2011 at 1:42am by bigjohn »

BJ.

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls? Reply #93 - Dec 6^th, 2011 at 9:56pm The saga continues. There is a recent report on MSE of a bill for £218 for calls to a 07 number when a 02 number was dialled.
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bazzerfewi Supreme Member Offline Baz Posts: 580 Barnsley Gender:	Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls? Reply #94 - Dec 6^th, 2011 at 11:00pm Is is very confusing for personal numbers to start 07 why is this allowed Most people assume that an 07 number is a mobile number How can a mobile number and a personal number be identified or do you have to wait to get your bill to find out.
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derrick

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #95 - Dec 7^th, 2011 at 11:41am

bazzerfewi wrote on Dec 6^th, 2011 at 11:00pm:

Is is very confusing for personal numbers to start 07 why is this allowed

Most people assume that an 07 number is a mobile number

How can a mobile number and a personal number be identified or do you have to wait to get your bill to find out.

070 numbers are personal numbers, 074-079,(except 076 which are for pagers), are mobiles.
See the following;-

http://www.area-codes.org.uk/07.shtml

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/numbering/guidance-tele-no/070-guidanc...

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« Last Edit: Dec 7^th, 2011 at 11:42am by derrick »

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kasg

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #96 - Dec 7^th, 2011 at 6:13pm

bazzerfewi wrote on Dec 6^th, 2011 at 11:00pm:

Most people assume that an 07 number is a mobile number

Indeed - and there was a proposal to change personal numbers (and probably pagers - I can't remember) to 06 to avoid this but, outrageously, this was dropped because the industry didn't like it and it was of too much benefit to the consumer.

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bazzerfewi

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #97 - Dec 8^th, 2011 at 4:29am

I can't remember) to 06 to avoid this but, outrageously, this was dropped because the industry didn't like it and it was of too much benefit to the consumer.
[/quote]

Surely there should be a campaign against this action just as there is one in regard to the use of 0800 numbers on mobiles at present.

This may be a task for members that are more knowledgeable than myself in these matters

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jrawle

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #98 - Dec 8^th, 2011 at 1:32pm

06 numbers were resisted because it would mean all personal number users would have to change their numbers, which they objected to when they had obtained such a number exactly so that they never have to change their number. Also, anyone with a memorable number containing lots of 7s wouldn't want to change to 06.

Quite why anyone would want to call someone on such a number, though, I don't know. But then I'm someone who avoids calling a mobile number if at all possible anyway, and still thinks it's bad if a business provides one instead of a landline number. So I'm the last person who'd call a personal number!

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #99 - Dec 8^th, 2011 at 3:17pm

The concept of a "get me anywhere" personal number had a certain appeal (for some) when it was launched, however the idea did not catch on, partly because the costing structure could not be made to work properly. The idea was then seized on as a means of ripping people off with expensive numbers.

Whilst the confusion with mobile numbers is a major concern, I do not believe that allocating the whole of a single digit range to a failed idea would be a proportionate response.

Ofcom is expected to be making an announcement on all of the issues addressed in its consultation early in the new year. Its latest published thoughts on 070 and 076 are found starting at page 434 of this document.

Some may be encouraged to note that these include the statement -
Quote:

we no longer consider the status quo to be justifiable given the lack of pricing transparency, the confusion over the nature of the number range and the persistence of scams being undertaken

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@fairtelecoms (tweets)

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Chiro

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #100 - Dec 24^th, 2011 at 2:12am

These 01 numbers are very much active and not historic as they would like you to believe. However 01 and 02 numbers do not generate any income. The 084 and 087 prefix numbers generate a small / varying amount from each call to the recipient, therefore making the company's phone bill far less than it would otherwise be. The rest of the call charge goes to the telephone company.

If this was not the case and these were just "national" and "local" calls, as described in rate of charge, then they would be included in your inclusive minutes. This is the reason they do not want to give out the geographic number. It runs through the exact same phone system, but at your cost if you dial 084 or 087.

Use the 01 or 02 number and make sure your phone company bills you correctly.

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grun

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #101 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 10:50am

I have just had my brush with VM, slightly off Op but we are on Unlimited Calls with virgin, at a cost of £8 per month,so not entirely free but an all inclusive package
I had purpose to log into my account,something which I haven't done for months, and was shocked to find some land line call charges were showing for 14p connection fee plus vat
Eventually getting through I found out that this charge was because i had dialled 1471,which funnily enough is advertised on Vm front page has being free, and then dialled "3" to return the call
In the tariff it says a call charge may apply but I would expect an all inclusive package means just that but with virgin it obviously only means part inclusive

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sherbert Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,011 Gender:	Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls? Reply #102 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 11:18am On BT they charge for that service, even if you have a package. The easiest way round it is not to press 3 but to dial the number yourself, then you wont be charged. Otherwise 1471 is 'free'
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Dave

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Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls?
Reply #103 - Jan 9^th, 2012 at 11:43am

grun wrote on Jan 9^th, 2012 at 10:50am:

I have just had my brush with VM, slightly off Op but we are on Unlimited Calls with virgin, at a cost of £8 per month,so not entirely free but an all inclusive package
I had purpose to log into my account,something which I haven't done for months, and was shocked to find some land line call charges were showing for 14p connection fee plus vat
Eventually getting through I found out that this charge was because i had dialled 1471,which funnily enough is advertised on Vm front page has being free, and then dialled "3" to return the call
In the tariff it says a call charge may apply but I would expect an all inclusive package means just that but with virgin it obviously only means part inclusive

Virgin Media publishes its call charges at www.virginmedia.com/callcosts

The current residential document (PDF) states:

Calling 1471 is free, but if you choose to return the call (that's Option 3) you will be charged 16.34p, in addition to your call charges
- just listen to the announcement carefully.

As sherbert says, BT also makes a charge for returning a call by pressing 3 having dialled 1471. Having read out the number, the recorded message says "To return the call, press 3. There is normally a charge for the service."

What does the Virgin Media 1471 say? What is the announcement that the price list advises should be listened to "carefully"?

This thread is about Virgin Media charging for calls that were dialled not in accordance with the price list. I am not sure that this is the case here.

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2012 at 11:47am by Dave »

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Can Phone Companies Reverse Engineer 01/02 Calls? Reply #104 - Jul 4^th, 2012 at 8:32am Some good news! We've had a message from Virgin Media letting us know that this issue was resolved last September. Customers who were overcharged were given automatic refunds early this year.
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