ihate0845 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2012 at 9:17am:

They are discussed and linked to in this thread - Ofcom 2012 consultation on non-geo numbers.

The principle that those receiving telephone calls may benefit from a premium paid by callers extends from the most expensive 09 numbers (at the rate of £1.50 per minute) down to 0845 (at 2p per minute).

Some would argue that this should be stopped altogether, or prohibited below the limits currently in place - up to 5p per minute for 084 and 10p per minute for 087.

Ofcom argues that it should continue, but that this level of "Service Charge" must be declared by the user of the number and that the telephone companies must clearly declare the "Access Charge" that they add to give the total cost for the call.


Whilst I agree that such a system is open to abuse, I believe that much of this would be halted if both parties had to declare their charges. I believe that few organisations would think it worthwhile to have a charge of less than 5p per minute, if they had to declare it.


ihate0845 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2012 at 9:17am:

You understand me correctly.

I see the fact that in some cases the Service Charge is paid by all those who subscribe to a particular package as unfair. Furthermore, this distorts the view of what is going on in cases where the call cost is extortionate.

Spreading the cost does ease the burden, but it also helps to hide it.

When ("low level") revenue sharing was originally introduced, with what we now know as 0845 and 0870 (in the latter case before the 2009 changes) and when BT had a near monopoly, the cost was hidden and spread so as to promote use of "enhanced telephony". The situation is so different now; there is no longer any basis for the cost being hidden.


ihate0845 wrote on Apr 21^st, 2012 at 9:17am:

Ofcom has very belatedly come to address a situation that has got totally out of hand.

Its statutory duty is to regulate an independent, profit-making telecoms industry. Its powers of enforcement are relatively weak, as any intervention takes a very long time and requires an excessive amount of effort.

The scope of Ofcom's regulation has recently been increased as a result of implementation of a EU directive. There may be arguments for the re-nationalisation of the telecoms industry (to remove the profit motive) or the introduction of legislation to permit stronger regulation (perhaps to cover users of telephone services, rather than just the providers). I cannot however see these being adopted as policy by any party likely to win control of the UK parliament in the foreseeable future.


Ofcom is not generally in favour of "pre call announcements". I agree, believing that the time when a caller needs to be aware of the rate of charge for a call is when they are deciding to make it, not after they have dialled the number with the intention of making the call.

I believe that use of PCAs should be reserved for cases where the caller is likely to have underestimated the cost of the call and needs to have the chance to abandon it when they learn the true cost (e.g. chargeable calls to 080 numbers from mobiles). Such situations should be kept to an absolute minimum; I see it as a systemic failure if the progress of a telephone conversation is interrupted by the insertion of possibly worthless messages.


Ofcom proposes to address the "arm and leg" issue by having limits on the level of Service Charge that can be applied to each group of numbers, e.g. 084 / 087 / 09, and also limiting the wide range of "Access Charges" that telcos currently apply to a single figure for each tariff. It will however be consulting separately on the possibility of lifting the upper limit of £1.50 per minute, so that part of the torso may be added to the cost of a call.

ihate0845 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:00pm:

ihate0845 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 5:51pm:

You seem to have read a very different version of Ofcom's proposals from that which I have read. At the risk of being accused of denying you the right to hold a different opinion, I must suggest that you have wholly misunderstood what is proposed.

ihate0845 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:00pm:

I regret that there are many people who do believe that 0845 calls cost the same as geographic calls or less. They either have service from BT or look only at BT tariffs, thinking that other call service providers are simply profiteering by charging more.

The Ofcom proposal to remove the NTS condition from BT will address this.


ihate0845 wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2012 at 6:00pm:

Your proposals are essentially reasonable and are very close to the effect which the Ofcom proposals are intended to achieve.

#1 is essentially what is currently in place, although it only applies to BT. PRS includes 087x. #4 (and #1) is what is proposed in terms of the "Service Charge".

Because Ofcom has to allow for competition it is unwilling to force all providers to make the same charge. If it simply set a maximum that had to be advised, there would be little incentive for operators to charge less, unless there was intense competition for business in this area. With the "Service Charge" fixed across all operators, it proposes that each is able to set a single "Access Charge".

#2 seems attractive but has many problems.

#3 would probably demand a designation of the type of service being offered on the line. As stated, it would outlaw Directory Enquiry services from phone service providers.

#5 (along with #2 and #3) would require a change to legislation for Ofcom to have these powers.


I believe that Ofcom is right to attempt to remove the clouds of doubt and confusion that cover this area, so that the relationships between the caller, their telephone company and the "Service Provider" (user of the number) are clear to see. I believe that when "Service Charges" have to be declared, it will make a difference.

If you continue to hold the opinion that this is not what Ofcom is proposing, then there is little point in us continuing to exchange views on the matter.

ihate0845 wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2012 at 4:32pm:

It is argued, not entirely without reason, that an open competitive market does benefit consumers! In some cases this is more effective than regulation - especially when it comes to pricing.

The current price regulation on BT is going to be removed, for exactly the reason that you give. As this essentially denies BT any revenue when originating calls to non-geographic numbers on other networks, it is absurd to think that anyone would choose to operate in this way.

It is far too soon to assess exactly what effect the new regime will have on prices in general. It will be a major shake-up to the system and I hope that a large number of current 0845 users will move to 03 or geographic numbers. Because it will be some time before it will come into effect - Ofcom plans to announce the final plan at the end of this year - the telcos have not given any indication of what they will do about their "Access Charges".

With charges for calls to mobiles due to come down to the same rate as those to landlines, I see the prospect of an all-inclusive package covering calls to mobiles, landlines and the access charge element of calls to non-geographic numbers. This would mean that the only call charges on a telephone bill would be the service charges passed on to service providers and international operators.

I would see such an arrangement as essentially fair - the only downside being the fact that those who make relatively light use of telephone services would be paying a proportionately high price for the benefit they receive.

In addition to the monthy rental fee there is an additional charge for the call unlimited package, this will also increase the overall cost of a call.

Conveniene wins over cost in most circumstances

to add a further point here, it seems irresponsible to change regulation when the outcome is unpredictable perhaps this is why ofcom so frequently get caught with their pants down.