Mr Purt is not strictly correct, as there are nine surgeries covered by the Hywel Dda Health Board using 0844 numbers, although three are branches; there are six practices and only six different numbers. They are listed here.

A summary covering all of the GIG Bwrddau Lechyd is given here.

This is the current version of the information given in an earlier blog posting GIG Bwrddau Lechyd to enforce principle of "free at the point of need" before the NHS can move forward. I am grateful to a Western Mail reporter for assistance with a little Welsh - see her story Sixty GP surgeries asking patients to call them on high-rate numbers.


A copy of a message currently in the course of being sent to all of the PCT Cluster Chief Executives in England will shortly be published on my NHS Patient Blog. Those following my campaigning activities through my news feeds will be advised of this.

The message for the Chief Executives of the Wales Health Boards is very similar as they have similar duties in respect of identical contractual provisions imposed on GPs.

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I hope that Mr Purt was not advised by the Health Board's leading authority on the relative cost of telephone calls when drafting his letter. His understanding of the reality of telephone call charges is very weak. The way that it is skewed in favour of 0844 numbers being acceptable causes one to wonder about the objectivity of his source of information.

To suggest that the vast majority of telephone users fall outside the terms of the provisions because they are only offered packages that include some inclusive calls is absurd. All residential BT and Virgin Media customers are thereby excluded as are all contract and some PAYG mobile users.

Mr Purt seems to believe that only those who are compelled to use a particular telephone service (perhaps payphone users?), having no choice, should be considered. He should therefore take a look at the relative cost of calling 0844 numbers from payphones. A list of relative call charges covering commonly used tariffs is published here.

The first thing that Mr Purt needs to do is to review the terms of the relevant contractual provisions and to note the exclusion of the word that is struck through below:

Quote:


Any requirement that addresses the cost incurred in making a telephone call cannot disregard the fact that there is a wide market for telephone services. Some landline users do have the freedom to choose an arrangement whereby the cost of a "normal" geographic call during the daytime is more expensive than one which includes an amount that is passed on the call recipient. They are however unlikely to choose such an arrangement because of its effect on the relative cost of a call to their GP!

It is complete nonsense to suggest that this perverse situation is any way relevant to these important provisions, which exist to protect the principles of the NHS.

warweezil wrote on Nov 29^th, 2011 at 10:11am:

Happily (or sadly!), we are all in exactly the same position. The standard terms of the contract are set nationally, following negotiation, by the respective government. Enforcement is devolved to the local NHS body, with whom the contract, under civil law, exists. (The same principle also applies in Scotland and Northern Ireland, although the form of the contracts are slightly different there.)

The arguments are extremely well made in the quoted posting. Citizens of the UK own a single "National" Health Service. No one government has the authority to steal this from us. Each is only granted temporary management duties for the duration of the respective parliament or assembly, which appoints it from its membership.


It is considered common courtesy for senior forum members to welcome newbies to the forum when replying to their postings. Please accept my apologies for not having done so previously and also a very warm welcome to a determined and eloquent fellow campaigner.

It is now a month since I wrote to Hywel Dda, I did get a letter back saying there may be a delay in thier reply, but in all honesty I cant see any reason for it to take a month - maybe they are still looking for a way to justify the continued use of 0844 in this area.

This weekend I will write to them again with a copy of my letter and tell them that they have 14 days in which to respond - after that I will go back to the Welsh Assembly Government and ask them what we can do to force the LHB in this area to listen to us - the citizens for whom they work!

It is time they acted - or justified their inaction.

catj wrote on Mar 8^th, 2012 at 8:55pm:

Strictly speaking that document, being issued by the Department of Health, only applies to England, as responsibility for the NHS is devolved.

It could however be of interest in Wales as the Welsh government modelled its GP contact revisions on those issued in England. In fact they are identical.

warweezil wrote on Apr 10^th, 2012 at 10:17am:

If they are thinking of terminating the typical arrangement which involves GPs using 0844 numbers, then those penalties will be mostly associated with early termination of a leasing agreement.

There is no requirement to incur such costs. This practice (as with all others) could comply with its contractual duty to the NHS by migrating to the equivalent 034 number for the remainder of the term of its telephone service contract - and beyond if it wishes to do so. This will mean that patients no longer pay to subsidise the costs of the telephone system, these would have to be met by the practice out of the money provided (by taxpayers) for the provision of NHS services.

Hi warweezal

I have just seen your post about your problem - I have a Document that SCV and myself have compiled explaining the 03 Migration Option I hope simply enough and I am about to send it to another Poster who is having the same problem - I will speak to SCV regarding your similar problem and could email it to you as an attachment so that you can print it off - if you like to PM me your email address. Also my Landline number if you need anything explaining.

I hope I can be of help

Hi CJT 80

I would be pleased to send you a copy of the 03 Migration Document. This is mainly intended for Practices that are saying they are "Locked into a 4/5 year Contract" and would like to adjust but cant afford the Rumoured Huge Financial Penalties for Termination"

I spoke to 5 Surgeries on 0844 - while I was on an old Metered Tariff with Talktalk before I moved to BT Anytime and of the 5 rung 4 answered and of these 4 only one was aware of 03 but had been told it would still cost a lot - the other 3 hadnt heard of it at all.

Getting back to the 03 Document - I am also reworking/updating another Document again with SCV help and checking for accuracy, intended originally to go to GPs to point out the error of their ways but this needed reworking in the light of the March and April Clarifications from on High - this I am working on now and could take a few days at least.

This could also be usefull to you to kill off the Lies that have been issued by NEG/Daisy in Compliance Letters requested by PCTs as fact and accepted as such, because the PCTs had no understanding of the real facts and Technicalities of this subject and in most cases just accepted these as true. These PCTs now have the embarrasment of having to accept that they were entirely wrong and and are reluctant to admit they hadnt done their job. There are also many that are just ignorant and stick to their Policy come what may.

If you could please PM me your email address I will add it to my list and send both as soon as the 2nd Document is ready, I will look around for the actual words and with SCV help link because it is a whole document not just a few sentences ( I think I have mentioned the Hansard quotes in the 2nd Document )