Does the BT Basic tariff really have weekday geographic calls included?

That is both misleading and confuing because I was under the impression that 0845 numbers were included in all packages because  BT was not allowed to make additional charges for 0845 numbers.

I do not know the correct terminology but I am sure that SilentCallVictim will be in a position to let us know.

Why are so many of the "Additional cost" cells just given as "-"? Many of these should read 0p, and in the case of some of the mobile operators, the additional cost of 0845 calls is negative - perhaps that should be highlighted in green.

Dave wrote on Dec 5^th, 2011 at 2:04pm:

There are three reasons why I am content to indicate that there is no additional cost, but do not want to draw attention to the "saving".

This list is primarily in connection with the terms of the contract which applies to NHS GPs and the Directions that apply to NHS bodies. These require attention to be given to the possibility that callers may pay more than the cost of an equivalent call to a geographic number (which is effectively a "benchmark" as the cost of a "normal" call). If any number causes callers to pay more, then it may not be used. This simple and straightforward approach is easy to understand and easy to apply. I reflect it in the presentation of my table.

In the case of the landlines where calls to 084 numbers are cheaper, this is generally (except for BT and 0845) due to the fact that a call which is covered by a package is charged at a penalty rate when made outside the times when the package is in effect. I do not shrink from showing the penalty rates, however it must be noted that any "saving" is not likely to be made in many cases, given that people choose the package that best suits the times when they use the telephone. (I know that sophisticated telephone users would not take so simplistic an approach, but I am trying to focus on the general case.)

The recently introduced lower rates for 0845 calls from PAYG mobiles are an interesting phenomenon. We have no idea about how long they will last. I strongly suspect that this could be an attempt to take some heat out of the issue as Ofcom looks to shortly present its proposals for "unbundled tariffs". I do not believe that Ofcom would be swayed, as it is looking at much wider matters, and I doubt that the present position is sustainable for the long term. There is however no question that it weakens some of our arguments, but does not undermine them. I do not hide these cases, but I am not going to highlight them.


My presentation is intended to highlight the additional costs incurred in calling 084 numbers for those on commonly used tariffs. It is however comprehensive, in that it gives the rates that could be used to show the level of saving (or equality) in some cases. It also gives links to the full detail of the published tariff - certain providers (e.g. o2) are omitted simply because there is no clearly published tariff to which I could provide a link.

I have also published tables intended to show the average relative cost of calls to 0845 vs. 01/02/03 numbers. It is however very difficult to get meaningful data on the relative use of particular tariffs so as to offer any truly authoritative conclusion.

The important point about the NHS situation is that, because the NHS is universal, considerations have to be based on "the arrangement as a whole", not on some selected or averaged case. For this reason I aim to give sufficient examples to show a) that no 084 number can be used, and b) how one may pick on selected cases in an attempt to demonstrate that 084 numbers could be used (if such selection were permissible).

Dave wrote on Dec 6^th, 2011 at 3:17pm:

I came very close to stating that calls to 01/02/03 numbers were "inclusive" with T-Mobile PAYG because a £10 monthly top-up provides 100 inclusive minutes plus whatever calls are covered by the £10. I do not however have sufficient grounds for assuming that most customers treat this £10 as a standard monthly subscription.

This does however show the same effect as seen with 0844 calls from BT landlines, because 0845 calls are not inclusive but are charged at a lower rate than non-inclusive calls to 01/02/03.

Having followed the point made in response, however, I have to say that this was not the point that I was making. The rates given for calling 0845 numbers in my cost table (which was perhaps a few months out of date) have changed as follows:

Provider	Tariff	From	To
Orange	Pay Monthly	20.4 ppm	12.4 ppm
Orange	PAYG	40 ppm	12 ppm
Vodafone	Pay Monthly	21 ppm	35 ppm *
Vodafone	PAYG	25 ppm	14 ppm
T-Mobile	Pay Monthly	41 ppm	12 ppm
T-Mobile	PAYG	40 ppm	12 ppm

* It must be noted that Vodafone is currently running a special offer on Pay Monthly whereby calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers are only 12p per minute and calls to 0800, 0808 and 0500 numbers are only 7p per minute. It is assumed that they will return to 35p per minute when this offer ends on 2 January 2012.

These are significant reductions.

Dave wrote on Dec 6^th, 2011 at 7:03pm:

I do take some care in trying to be fair in selecting the figures to use, however I cannot claim that anything in this category (i.e. from the mobiles) is totally up to date and guaranteed to be representative, when there are various different options. I believe that I have represented the figures fairly, both previously and now.

I doubt that the potential revenue from 0845 calls is sufficiently significant to warrant a price reduction to generate more traffic. Had this been so, then we would have seen the reductions being strongly marketed. They will however never look good against zero from BT.

If do not think I am being over-cynical in suggesting that the imminent announcements from Ofcom may well be a primary reason for this move. Unbundling tariffs will (would) cause difficulties for both mobile providers and business rate and premium rate users, because they would not be able to blame each other for the high rates - each would have to declare their respective portion of the charge. It is therefore predictable that they will do all they can to influence public opinion against such a change.

Much of the public anger derives from the very common use of 0845 numbers, so any mitigation of that anger may reduce the support and justification for Ofcom taking action. It is however all 084 / 087 / 09 numbers that Ofcom is looking at, and it has clearly rejected the option of removing revenue share from 0845 because so many users claim to need it. It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.