SAYNOTO0870.COM - Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance

nicholas43

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #15 - Jun 27^th, 2012 at 4:28pm

I have just had an enraging telephone conversation with a manager in the Co-op Skelmersdale call centre. Staff there are briefed that a 'market research survey' showed that 72% of customers will find it cheaper to call the 844 rip-off numbers! Staff are unaware that the Co-op website quotes a wrong price for calling 845 from a BT landline. (BT charges 2.042p/m or 0.51p/m, not 7.95p/m as the Co-op claims.) And, as SCV has already noted, on BT's most popular plan, Anytime, calls to 845 are included 24/7.
All originating providers make it difficult to find the cost of calling these 844 rip-off numbers, but as far as a I can make out, calls to 844844 (tariff g6) on Sky are, exceptionally, marginally cheaper than calls to 845. On Virgin, calls to 845 are (I think) a rip-off 10.22 p/m, and calls to tariff PG6 are (I think) 12.41 p/m.
I surmise (but of course, do not know) that the Co-op's management has been bamboozled by what would appear to be a fraudulent sales pitch from some purveyor of 844 numbers.
Incidentally, the manager at Skelmersdale mistakenly claimed to me that calls to the honest 01695 53760 number (which still works, for the time being) do not terminate on the IVR menu. In fact, they do (again, for the time being?)

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« Last Edit: Jun 27^th, 2012 at 4:30pm by nicholas43 »

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ellemcee Newbie Offline Posts: 2 Gender:	Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844 Reply #16 - Jul 14^th, 2012 at 11:15am I was very pleased to see this in The Guardian today http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jul/13/coop-pulls-back-from-0844
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catj Senior Member Offline Posts: 366	Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844 Reply #17 - Jul 14^th, 2012 at 6:23pm This says it all... Leaked internal memo shows Co-op was set to make extra £2.4m from charging customers more for calls. However, it's a meaningless figure - 2.4 million quid per what? You'd probably assume "year", but it could quite easily be "month" or "week".
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #18 - Jul 14^th, 2012 at 6:57pm

catj wrote on Jul 14^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

This says it all...

I can now say that we are seeing an early example of a Service Provider starting to come to terms with what the Unbundled Tariff will mean for many of them.

I have no proof, but I believe that there are many organisations in a similar position, who are only just now starting to understand the true impact of taking what seems to be "a good deal" from their telephone company.

Ignorance is no excuse. But its removal is seen here to have had a part to play.

I hope that when the Co-op gets to grips with what it is already charging customers on 0845 numbers, then it may be the first of many who do the right thing, ahead of being compelled to do so by the implementation of the Consumer Rights Directive, or embarrassed into doing so by the Unbundled Tariff.

Well done Miles, and his anonymous accomplice. This is going down the right course.

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trickyd

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #19 - Aug 9^th, 2012 at 6:38am

To rub salt into the wound, their Manchester-based complaints department (with whom I have recently had dealings relating to a large increase in the interest rate on a credit card- yet more Co-op style "ethics") is now publicising an 0843 number to contact them, instead of a geographical 0161 number as before.

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nicholas43

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #20 - Aug 27^th, 2012 at 6:14pm

And the standard letter the Co-op Bank sends to those who complain about the revenue-generating 0844 numbers is full of utter nonsense: "the move ... is both fairer and offers more transparency for our customers. Call charges ... will be consistent and clear whatever time of day you call." Co-op managers have not bothered to consider the (ever more punitive) BT connection charge, and appear not to know that (1) It's hard to find what BT charges for calls to 0844CDE (and, of course, it depends on CDE) (2) Only determined experts can find what Virgin etc charge; (3) ASDA mobile's website does not know, and nor do most ASDA call centre staff if you ring and ask.

Then the last stings: "If you have new or further information ... please contact me on [you've guessed!] 0843 208 7391."

And "you may refer your complaint to the FOS". Invoking the FOS is pointless, unless you are ill-informed enough to have actually lost money by calling the Co-op's 0844 number: the FOS will only investigate if you have "lost out" as result of a bank's incompetence.

Although the Co-op briefed The Guardian that they were having a re-think, there is no evidence of it, as yet.

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sherbert Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,011 Gender:	Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844 Reply #21 - Aug 27^th, 2012 at 6:23pm You could always email Barry Tootell, Chief Executive at barry.tootell@cfs.coop and have a moan
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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #22 - Aug 27^th, 2012 at 6:55pm

Until the (possibly radical) outcome of the deliberations is determined - so that evidence can be provided - members and others should continue to make representations through whatever channel is most appropriate. (Ringing an expensive telephone number is not an appropriate channel!)

Constructive suggestions and serious complaints are likely to be more effective than moaning. There is so much that one can moan about. It takes a very large amount of moaning before an organisation recognises that there is a real problem which has a solution.

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CJT-80

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #23 - Aug 27^th, 2012 at 11:30pm

sherbert wrote on Aug 27^th, 2012 at 6:23pm:

You could always email Barry Tootell, Chief Executive at barry.tootell@cfs.coop and have a moan

On the grounds that BOTH Co-Op Bank and Insurance have 0844 numbers I gave them "feedback" and e-mailed Co-Op customer relations advising it was against their "ethical" stance and if they wanted to charge everyone a "set rate" as opposed to using 084 numbers to use an 03 number which is a Geographic rate..

I await a reply.

Roll Eyes

Edited for mistakes... never write a reply this late! Sad

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« Last Edit: Aug 27^th, 2012 at 11:32pm by CJT-80 »

Regards,

CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com

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John Buchanan Newbie Offline Posts: 18 Gender:	Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844 Reply #24 - Sep 12^th, 2012 at 8:24pm They are now reviewing their 0844 numbers. http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite/1336458204636,CFSweb/Page/CF...
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nicholas43

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #25 - Sep 13^th, 2012 at 7:13am

But they have not changed their page, oddly headed What will you (ie the Co-op) charge for phone calls?
http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/servlet/Satellite/1193206376679,CFSweb/Page/Ba...
This falsely asserts that Weekend is BT's most popular plan, falsely states that calling 0845 from a BT line costs the same as geographic, and falsely states that the set-up fee 'may' apply to calls to 0844. And weirdly tells us the cost of calling mobile numbers. Are there any mobile numbers that the Co-op publicizes?
Given that - with a bit of effort - anyone can find out the costs of calling 0844 in an afternoon, why is this review taking so long? Is there some issue about the Co-op's contract with whoever sold them the 0844 numbers? (Talk talk business, it appears.)

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #26 - Sep 13^th, 2012 at 9:55am

There is no excuse for not correcting the false information about call costs.

It is indeed sad that the review is taking so long.

Readers may however see a possible positive indication in the choice of words in the statement:
Quote:

In the meantime, we will continue to provide 0845 numbers too.

This should perhaps be read as implying that 0845 numbers are being retained as a temporary measure to relieve the excessive cost of calling 0844 numbers for some callers. This can only be taken to mean that the intended outcome is for there to be neither 0844 nor 0845 numbers.

The necessary negotiations may take some time. It is perhaps unreasonable to expect an organisation to openly declare its intended outcome ahead of what it hopes to be an imminent announcement of a resolution.

It is reasonable to assume that there must be an issue (or two) to resolve with the provider. This must be obvious when a review of a significant set of number changes has to occur so swiftly after they have been introduced.

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sara66750

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #27 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 12:33am

Another problem with these numbers is that they state on their web site that you can call from abroad by putting the UK dialling code in front and leaving out the first zero. ie 0448....... BUT you can not - I know I live in France and it is impossible to call UK 08 numbers. France Telecom have no system to recognise them because they are charged nor do mobile phone operators.
So luckily I still have their old 01..... number but imagine some poor SMILE or Co-op customer who had lost their card or it was blocked for some reason trying to telephone, I do not think that they would be happy
I have informed them of this but they have not changed this information which is not hmmmm correct.

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speedy

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Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844
Reply #28 - Oct 10^th, 2012 at 9:15pm

No wonder it is taking so long, if nicholas43 is correct about the provider of the number being Talktalk Business then we have here another example of NEG/Daisy false sales antics. Incidently where did nicholas43 find this information are you sure it is correct.

This looks like their underhand sales information in the same way that GPs were sold the 0844 concept, and no GP has migrated to 03 yet. I think they will buy themselves out of their new contract and revert to Enhanced geographic numbers. When will business learn NOT to take information given by an interested party as gospel without checking with an Independant Advisor who has a clue about the Telephone Industry.

Daisy tie up their 0844 customers tighter than a spider cocoons its lunch so I wouldn't hold your breath too long or you will wind up in the Co-operative Funeral Dept.

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catj Senior Member Offline Posts: 366	Re: Co-operative Bank/CIS Insurance - 0845 to 0844 Reply #29 - Oct 11^th, 2012 at 1:32pm speedy wrote on Oct 10^th, 2012 at 9:15pm: Incidently where did nicholas43 find this information? Are you sure it is correct? Look in here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/numbering/s8_code.txt or here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/numbering/s8.xls Scroll down to '8448 44'.
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