SAYNOTO0870.COM - Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls

bigjohn Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,316 Gender:	Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 4:11am Orange Homephone are now chargeing a 12.5p connection fee to call non chargeable 0800 Freephone calls. http://web.orange.co.uk/documents/ice/termsandconditions/orange_home_phone_voice...
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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls Reply #1 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 10:37am Is this a mistake?
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CJT-80

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #2 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 11:55am

bigjohn wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 4:11am:

Orange Homephone are now chargeing a 12.5p connection fee to call non chargeable 0800 Freephone calls.

http://web.orange.co.uk/documents/ice/termsandconditions/orange_home_phone_voice...

I would HOPE that's a genuine mistake from Orange.

Do they have an e-mail address someone can contact them on?

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CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #3 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 1:31pm

It is not clear that this is a change; it may be that the 12p connection charge applied previously, when the fees were not detailed quite so clearly.

The one stated General Condition demands that there is a Pre-call announcement whenever this charge is applied. There is also a general assumption that 080x calls from landlines are free of charge.

It must also be noted that this charge only applies to daytime calls made by those who choose the "off-peak" only option.

This simply confirms that "penalty charges" apply to calls made outside the terms of the chosen Call Plan. In this case it includes 0800 calls.

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bigjohn

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #4 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:44pm

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 1:31pm:

It is not clear that this is a change; it may be that the 12p connection charge applied previously, when the fees were not detailed quite so clearly.

The one stated General Condition demands that there is a Pre-call announcement whenever this charge is applied. There is also a general assumption that 080x calls from landlines are free of charge.

It must also be noted that this charge only applies to daytime calls made by those who choose the "off-peak" only option.

This simply confirms that "penalty charges" apply to calls made outside the terms of the chosen Call Plan. In this case it includes 0800 calls.

At first i thought it must be a mistake.

Yes no mention of it in previous May tariff guide

http://web.orange.co.uk/documents/ice/termsandconditions/home_voice_price_guide_...

No mistake according to this recent thread . Where a poster says "phoned Orange to query it and was told that the connection fee does apply to 0800 numbers. They are no longer shown as "inclusive" as in the past but have a "Free" price per minute."

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4157537

and no mention of 0800 number,s being included in any of there inclusive minutes bundles .

EG Broadband and Anytime Calls.

"Inclusive calls are to UK landlines starting with 01, 02, 03, 0845 and 0870 using your landline at anytime. You can call for up to one hour, redial as often as you like and calls are subject to our fair use policy of 1000 minutes a month. If you go over that amount we reserve the right to monitor your usage and/or suspend or terminate your service. We will give you reasonable notice of our intention to suspend or terminate the service and give you the opportunity to reduce your usage. Calls to some telephone numbers starting with 08 will cost up to 12.5p/min and calls to 09 numbers cost up to £1.83 p/min. "

https://broadband.orange.co.uk/home

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« Last Edit: Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 4:18pm by bigjohn »

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catj Senior Member Offline Posts: 366	Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls Reply #5 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 7:35pm Whatever they do, they have to comply with this.... http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/telecoms/numbering/numbering-plan.pdf
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CJT-80

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #6 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 11:18pm

catj wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 7:35pm:

Whatever they do, they have to comply with this....

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/telecoms/numbering/numbering-plan.pdf

Specifically:
080
Special Services - No charge to Customer (except where charges shall be notified to callers at the start of the call)

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CJT-80

Any comments made are my own and are not those of SayNoTo0870.com

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #7 - Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 11:57pm

CJT-80 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 11:18pm:

catj wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 7:35pm:

Whatever they do, they have to comply with this....

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/telecoms/numbering/numbering-plan.pdf

Specifically:
080
Special Services - No charge to Customer (except where charges shall be notified to callers at the start of the call)

Exactly - this refers to the stipulation already in the specific General Condition - A Pre-Call Announcement must be used.

If anyone knows of a user who is prepared to test it, there could be some purpose in checking that the PCA is in place.

A 12.5p charge for a call to a 080 number without a PCA would be illegal.

In this case, a published tariff is not sufficient notification - because of the widespread assumption that calls to 080 numbers are free to caller.

bigjohn wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 3:44pm:

They are no longer shown as "inclusive" as in the past but have a "Free" price per minute.

Looking again, I see that this is what makes the difference. There has been a change. The same definition of the set-up charge appears in both.

Quote:

A 12p / 12.5 call set-up charge applies to all non-inclusive calls, unless calls are charged at a fixed rate

As noted, the change from "inclusive" to "Free of a per minute charge" is significant. Being free, they are not "charged at a fixed rate". Previously they were "inclusive".

Clearly this charge applies to all customers. It introduces the concept of an "Access Charge" for all 08 numbers.

The number ranges document confirms that 0808 is treated the same way as 0800. One wonders if this includes the 0808 80 "helpline" numbers, for which EE waives its charges on calls from mobiles!

A document detailing the "Important changes to Orange Home voice prices – 19 September 2012" fails to mention this change - obviously EE does not see it as "important". The reader is invited to "Please read this document carefully and check the dialled numbers to understand if these price changes impact you". There is no reference to 080.

On a wider front, this must be seen as another example of EE's attempts to undermine Ofcom's efforts to simplify non-geographic numbers. When the next round of announcements are made (target - end of 2012) this will include the proposed amendment to the General Conditions to make all calls to 080 numbers free to caller. It appears odd to see a provider moving against the known direction of travel!

Some of us think that EE is shaping up for what we hope will be a fight with Ofcom. It has already got away with using existing spectrum for 4G ahead of the auction, so it may feel that it already has the upper hand.

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derrick

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #8 - Sep 25^th, 2012 at 9:25am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2012 at 11:57pm:

On a wider front, this must be seen as another example of EE's attempts to undermine Ofcom's efforts to simplify non-geographic numbers. When the next round of announcements are made (target - end of 2012) this will include the proposed amendment to the General Conditions to make all calls to 080 numbers free to caller. It appears odd to see a provider moving against the known direction of travel!

Some of us think that EE is shaping up for what we hope will be a fight with Ofcom. It has already got away with using existing spectrum for 4G ahead of the auction, so it may feel that it already has the upper hand.

Need to ask, who/what is EE?

.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #9 - Sep 25^th, 2012 at 9:31am

derrick wrote on Sep 25^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

Need to ask, who/what is EE?

Everything Everywhere is the company that now owns Orange and T-Mobile.

It (or perhaps in the abbreviated version) is the name by which future services from what is now the largest mobile provider will be known.

This link may help - http://everythingeverywhere.com/2012/09/11/everything-everywhere-launches-ee-a-n...

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« Last Edit: Sep 25^th, 2012 at 10:39am by SilentCallsVictim »

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derrick

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #10 - Sep 26^th, 2012 at 10:36am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 25^th, 2012 at 9:31am:

derrick wrote on Sep 25^th, 2012 at 9:25am:

Need to ask, who/what is EE?

Everything Everywhere is the company that now owns Orange and T-Mobile.

It (or perhaps in the abbreviated version) is the name by which future services from what is now the largest mobile provider will be known.

This link may help - http://everythingeverywhere.com/2012/09/11/everything-everywhere-launches-ee-a-n...

Cheers, might help for people that don't know what certain acronyms are to supply the name at the intro of the acronym.
Notice that company use an 0845 number for their press team, but at least they have an 01 number for the res.

.

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loddon

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #11 - Sep 26^th, 2012 at 10:40am

SilentCallsVictim wrote on Sep 25^th, 2012 at 9:31am:

[quote author=derrick link=1348373512/8#8 date=1348565123]

http://everythingeverywhere.com/2012/09/11/everything-everywhere-launches-ee-a-n...

I wonder if any others agree with me ? Having clicked on this link I find it is yet another example of "lets make our text as pale/faint/illegible as possible by using an even lighter shade of grey until it virtually diappears into the white background" tyrrany that pervades the on-line world today. I feel it is straining and potentially damaging my eyesight as even the BBC are doing it on their website. Why is the on-line industry doing this? Do they think they are emulating "paper" by always using a whiter than white background? Why don't they ever use some nice pastel colours and dark text so the text is easier to see? I certainly didn't attempt to read EE's page so they won't be getting any business from me .

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« Last Edit: Sep 26^th, 2012 at 10:44am by loddon »

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Dave

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #12 - Sep 26^th, 2012 at 10:53am

loddon wrote on Sep 26^th, 2012 at 10:40am:

I wonder if any others agree with me ? Having clicked on this link I find it is yet another example of "lets make our text as pale/faint/illegible as possible by using an even lighter shade of grey until it virtually diappears into the white background" tyrrany that pervades the on-line world today. I feel it is straining and potentially damaging my eyesight as even the BBC are doing it on their website. Why is the on-line industry doing this? Do they think they are emulating "paper" by always using a whiter than white background? Why don't they ever use some nice pastel colours and dark text so the text is easier to see? I certainly didn't attempt to read EE's page so they won't be getting any business from me .

I agree that EE is taking it too far with the text.

The EE logo is dark grey, so maybe they have decided to go all grey and get in as many shades as possible.

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loddon Supreme Member Offline Posts: 599 Reading UK Gender:	Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls Reply #13 - Sep 26^th, 2012 at 11:16am Dave wrote on Sep 26^th, 2012 at 10:53am: [quote author=loddon link=1348373512/11#11 date=1348656057] The EE logo is dark grey, so maybe they have decided to go all grey and get in as many shades as possible. Would that be 50 shades of grey then??
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Dave

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Re: Sneaky Orange Home Phone Connection Fee 0800 Calls
Reply #14 - Sep 26^th, 2012 at 12:30pm

loddon wrote on Sep 26^th, 2012 at 11:16am:

Would that be 50 shades of grey then?? Wink

Clearly there is a requirement for good netiquette so as not to inflict unwanted punishment on readers' eyes.

I think that EE needs whipping into shape on this one. Fifty shades of grey is fine, but they should be darker.

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« Last Edit: Sep 26^th, 2012 at 12:34pm by Dave »

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