bigjohn wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2013 at 9:23am:

This personal comment is a further indication that some see this public forum as a vehicle for direct conversation between a particular group of people. (I use other means for such exchanges.) My contributions here are aimed at those who are interested in serious open public discussion of the issues and are ready to engage with them fully. That is my "intended audience". If any reader feels that they are not part of this group, then they should simply disregard my contributions to these discussions, as they are not directed at them.

In making that remark, I recognise that perhaps I should be disregarding many of the contributions made as, even though they may address me by name, they are not truly directed at me, but at other readers.


If other members wish to engage with the points I make, but find them unclear, it is perfectly proper to politely request clarification or invite confirmation of an understanding gained. As the forum covers many specific and detailed matters it is inevitable that shorthand abbreviations or brief references are made to them in the course of a specific contribution. To the new reader this will inevitably appear to be gobbledygook.

The Plain English Campaign is a most noble cause for the areas that it addresses. I endeavour to have regard to its principles when these are relevant to my communications (e.g. on TV and radio). If every contribution to this forum were to be written in Plain English, then I am sure that the sense of being talked down to would be much greater.


Perhaps the point I made about contributions being challenged was worth picking up on, when a further reference to a fall off in contributions was made. I am naturally disappointed that the conversation is not moving forward.


I personally believe that the reduction in contributions is largely due to the fact that Ofcom has now SAID NO TO 0870 (as it was) and that general public and official awareness of this issue has achieved a significant breakthrough. There are many points left to discuss, including the acceptability of alternatives, although these are increasingly coming down to narrow points of detail. I accept that some contributors hold the view that the underlying issues are so nasty (e.g. Ofcom being essentially corrupt) that nothing will ever change and they are thereby forced to even question my motives, in order to support this view.

Some may wish for a return to the situation as it was several years ago; I am pleased to wish to consolidate the progress we have made and take it further. If this forum cannot find a place for itself in this changed situation, then so be it.

I wish to put it on the record that one of the main reasons I contribute much less often to this discussion forum is because instead of having a satisfying discussion about the nature of these ripoff numbers and the companies who run them with a like minded group of people it nearly always now provokes a long and impenetrable discourse from SilentCallsVictim.

He clearly does not care that his long impenetrable and thoroughly equivocal ramblings disrupt the ethos of this once harmonious discussion community as he clearly has the support of Dave and Daniel for behaving in this manner.  Also as it is well known he has nothing else to do with his free time he sadly seems unable to free himself of his addiction to making long rambling and equivocal posts in the forum as he seems to derive some kind of emotional satisfaction from proving (in his mind) that he is much more intellectually clever than the simple minded folk who previously gathered here who simply had a passion to avoid calling these ripoff numbers and to try and have them closed down if at all possible.

If SCV thinks the problem is now fixed I am sure he is naive since I am sure that many companies will run an 03 customer service line on which the range of matters they are willing to discuss is incredibly limited.  However they will then also continue to run premium rate technical support phone lines using the same old ripoff system as they will define the assistance provided on these lines as not being customer service.

Also many companies will address the issue of not being able to run 084/7 numbers for customer service by simply eliminating phone call contact altogether for customer service matters and requiring that the customers submits their issue in writing on a web form where their complaint will probably be limited to between 200 and 500 characters.

These complaints will then be met by cut and paste responses from the companies in question that do not either fully or satisfactorily address the issues that the customer is raising (Aviva's Quotemehappy.com represents a model of the lousy customer service likely to be fielded by such web contact only product brands).

So far as I am aware the EU Directive does not make it compulsory to offer customer service by telephone but merely requires that where telephone support is offered overt and covert premium rate numbers cannot be used.  This website is therefore likely to remain a resource for listing phone numbers for companies who do not choose to publish any means at all of contacting them other than by online web complaint or comment form.