SAYNOTO0870.COM - Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges

loddon

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Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:54pm

The Public Accounts Committee, chaired by Margaret Hodge MP, has published its report today on use of premium phone numbers by government Departments.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/publi...

The Rt Hon Margaret Hodge MP today said:

“Customers of Government services should be able to contact those services easily and cheaply. Charging customers higher rates by making them use 0845 or other high rate numbers is not acceptable, especially when the customers are often vulnerable people. ................................................

There should be low cost alternatives for all services used by a lot of vulnerable people."

Whilst we welcome most of what is said in this report we find it astonishing that she should only call for alternative numbers to be made available. The question that should be asked:--- "WHY SHOULD GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS USE PREMIUM NUMBERS AT ALL ???"

The answer is that there is no valid reason at all, so Mrs Hodge MP should be demanding an outright BAN on PREMIUM NUMBERS such as 0844, 0843 and 0845.

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loddon

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #1 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 1:03pm

Our doughty campaigner David Hickson appeared on Sky News today at 12.30 to discuss the Public Accounts Committee Report. Again David spoke well but missed an opportunity to make an important point. The newscaster asked "where does the premium money go to ? To the organisation called or to the phone companies?"

David talked about the revenue accruing to the called organisation in some form or other but failed to point out that MOST of the cost accrues as revenue to the phone companies who scandalously overcharge unethically for calls to these numbers.

We need to be clear about this; most of the premium cost of 084 and 087 numbers is charged by the phone companies, soon to be called the Access Charge under Ofcom proposals, whilst the much smaller portion of the cost goes in some form to the organisation called and will be designated the Service Charge under the Ofcom proposals. We must not concentrate on the Service Charge and omit the major problem of the Access Charge in furthering our arguments. It is the Access Charge which is the main element in the "Telephone Tax".

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« Last Edit: Nov 11^th, 2013 at 1:10pm by loddon »

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bbb_uk

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Calls to Government departments 'too expensive'
Reply #2 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:46pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24888608

Quote:

More than 100 million calls by the public to government departments were charged at a premium rate, costing people an estimated £56m, MPs said.......

Target 'poorest'

Half of the lines in Whitehall which charge premium rates "serve the poorest" in society, it said, and there ought to be "low-cost alternatives" for vulnerable people.

There was also criticism that calls to government departments took too long to answer.

"Customers of government services should be able to contact those services easily and cheaply," Mrs Hodge, who chairs the committee, said.

"Charging customers higher rates by making them use 0845 or other high-rate numbers is not acceptable, especially when the customers are often vulnerable people.

"Customers spent an estimated £56m on calls using higher rate numbers, from the lines run by the Department for Work and Pensions, to helplines for victim support and the Bereavement Service and the inquiries and complaints line of the Student Loans Company."

According to the communications regulator Ofcom, 0843 and 0844 calls cost between 1p and 13p a minute from landlines and, typically, between 15p and 41p a minute from mobile phones.

Calls to 0845 numbers cost between 1p and 10.5p a minute from landlines, and from 12p to 41p from mobiles while for 0870 codes, the rates are 2p to 10p and 21p to 41p.

The Department for Work and Pensions, which gets more than a 100 million calls from the public a year, has said it will offer a choice between 0845 and 0345 numbers to enable callers to choose the line which is cheaper for them....

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« Last Edit: Nov 11^th, 2013 at 12:46pm by bbb_uk »

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Barbara Supreme Member Offline Posts: 598	Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges Reply #3 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 2:26pm Re the quote in post no2, this also misses the very important point when talking about call costs, some as low as 1p per minute, that calls to these numbers are excluded[b][/b]from call packages so the comparison is with 0p per call & Xp per minute + connection charge!
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SilentCallsVictim Supreme Member Offline aka NHS.Patient, DH_fairtelecoms Posts: 2,494	Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges Reply #4 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 3:26pm Does anybody have a copy or transcript of the Sky item?
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loddon

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #5 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 5:05pm

The Daily Mail has reported on this Committee Report, as its main front page story in some editions, and it is on the Mail Online website with the following headings :---

"How the State makes a killing out of premium phone lines: MPs' outrage as 'vulnerable' taxpayers calling for help rack up a £56million bill
Almost two thirds of calls fielded by the Government are premium rate
Victim Support, HMRC and the Department for Work and Pensions use them
Almost half the total was generated while callers waste their time on hold
MPs have demanded that new rules are established to protect callers

By Geri Peev and Matt Chorley"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2498592/How-State-makes-killing-premium-...

There are currently 292 readers comments under the story. All the comments I have seen are strongly critical of the unjustified use of 084 type numbers -- Ofcom should tale note yet again! A typical comment is this :---

"ferretman, Bristol, United Kingdom, 1 hour ago
Rip off Britain - it never ends.Some government departments have said they"are investigating" various alternatives to the premium rate numbers. What a load of BS! They set up these premium rate lines easily enough so I am sure that they can cancel them. ....."

This topic continues to generate anger and disgust from the public whenever the opportunity to comment arises. Ofcom should take note and modify their deeply flawed proposals for non-geographic numbers. It is clear that the public don't want them and see no value in them. Ofcom need to recognise that their disingenuous suggestion (claimed finding from their own research) that there is a DEMAND for these non-geo numbers from the public is untrue and Ofcom should change their proposals from introducing access and service charges to instead rule that any additional charges above the cost of a geographic number must be charged to the user of the number.

It is clear that the public hold government and organisations which use these numbers and the telephone industry in contempt and demand that the whole problem is dealt with by a radical change.

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« Last Edit: Nov 11^th, 2013 at 5:06pm by loddon »

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loddon

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #6 - Nov 11^th, 2013 at 5:22pm

The Daily Mail quotes the Student Loans Company which uses the numbers, saying that "doing away with them would cost it £1million in (lost) revenue."

We have made the point many times before :---

For any company to generate £1million in revenue the callers must pay anywhere between £5 million and £25million in their call costs. Callers using mobiles will be paying up to 41p per minute for their calls out of which the "company" will receive a mere 2p. Where does the rest of the money go, you may ask????? The answer is it goes to the Phone Service Industry, companies such as EE, O2, Vodaphone .... all ripping-off the Great British Public with excessive charges. Ofcom should eliminate this scandal.

The Daily Mail headline should have addressed the major scandal behind this story as follows:---

"How the Phone Service Industry makes a killing out of premium phone lines:"

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« Last Edit: Nov 11^th, 2013 at 5:43pm by loddon »

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derrick Supreme Member Offline Posts: 1,124	Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges Reply #7 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 10:43am These numbers have been used by government for years & years, stories have been all over the media, MP's have been lobbied yet it was,(is),allowed to continue, so we now have the Public Accounts Committee joining the debate, but when is someone actually going to put a stop on them? .
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speedy Full Member Offline Posts: 148 Dartford Gender:	Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges Reply #8 - Nov 12^th, 2013 at 11:10pm 309 comments now on that Mail Online piece on the Link shown on a previous post.
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loddon Supreme Member Offline Posts: 599 Reading UK Gender:	Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges Reply #9 - Nov 13^th, 2013 at 10:14pm It is expected that the Public Accounts Committee Report will be discussed on "You and Yours" on BBC Radio 4 tomorrow at 12.04pm.
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bigjohn

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #10 - Nov 14^th, 2013 at 6:05am

"The Department for Work and Pensions, which gets more than a 100 million calls from the public a year, has said it will offer a choice between 0845 and 0345 numbers to enable callers to choose the line which is cheaper for them."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24888608

When will this happen then ?

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« Last Edit: Nov 14^th, 2013 at 6:07am by bigjohn »

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bazzerfewi

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #11 - Nov 14^th, 2013 at 7:32am

I have just read the report in regard to expensive 08 numbers and they have quoted different call rates.

Correct me if I am wrong but they make no mention of the connection charges.

In some cases isn't the connection charge upto 0.15p virgin for example are due to increase connnection charges.

Surely the connection charge is a big issue, and to this end all numbers to public services must start 03 or 0800 for it to have any real impact.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #12 - Nov 14^th, 2013 at 7:43am

bigjohn wrote on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 6:05am:

…

When will this happen then ?

I believe that an announcement will be made within the next month.

I also suspect (and will demand if not) that the 03 numbers will be presented as the "primary" number, with the 0845 "alternative" noted as being for use only by those in the perverse situation where it is cheaper.

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SilentCallsVictim

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #13 - Nov 14^th, 2013 at 7:55am

bazzerfewi wrote on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 7:32am:

… all numbers to public services must start 03 or 0800 for it to have any real impact.

See the recommendation below the third conclusion from the committee on this page:

Quote:

… ensure that 03 numbers are available for all government telephone lines within 6 to 12 months, prioritising any which predominantly serve vulnerable and low-income groups

The justification for possibly retaining 084 numbers as alternatives is a problem that will be addressed in the coming weeks, as the sinister reason for this (which is not in itself truly a "government" issue) needs to be exposed.

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derrick

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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #14 - Nov 14^th, 2013 at 11:45am

bazzerfewi wrote on Nov 14^th, 2013 at 7:32am:

I have just read the report in regard to expensive 08 numbers and they have quoted different call rates.

Correct me if I am wrong but they make no mention of the connection charges.

In some cases isn't the connection charge upto 0.15p virgin for example are due to increase connnection charges.

Surely the connection charge is a big issue, and to this end all numbers to public services must start 03 or 0800 for it to have any real impact.

The connection charge is payable for 01/02/03 numbers if not in a bundle, and not everyone has bundles, so I don't see it as a big issue as most people will know there is a connection fee to pay.

.

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