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Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges (Read 35,009 times)
loddon
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #15 - Nov 14th, 2013 at 12:46pm
 
BBC Radio 4 "You and Yours" has just broadcast today (@12.25) its story on the report by the Public Accounts Committee, reporter Natalie .....

They gave an example of a lady who had an elderly relative in hospital and one phone call cost over Ł15.   Clearly this was to an 070 number and the Hospital trust claimed that it was "Government Policy at that time ..." to install these 070 numbers, but now patients are free to use their mobile phones if they wish.

Theodore Spyrou Chief Executive of the Helplines Partnership was interviewed but I was unable to understand what the purpose was or what message he was trying to impart.   Undecided   
He seemed to be saying that the helplines industry was promoting industry standards, but I could not tell if he was for or against 084/7 rip-off numbers.   Huh
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« Last Edit: Nov 14th, 2013 at 2:04pm by loddon »  
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bazzerfewi
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #16 - Nov 14th, 2013 at 3:33pm
 
I thought there is a connection charge set by the provider for all calls except 0800 and numbers included in call bundles
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #17 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:38am
 
derrick wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:45am:
The connection charge is payable for 01/02/03 numbers if not in a bundle, and not everyone has bundles, so I don't see it as a big issue as most people will know there is a connection fee to pay.

There are a few landline users with providers who do not base their tariffs on calls to 01/02/03 numbers being inclusive, and I am not sure that this odd bunch do pay call connection charges.

The normal cost of a normal call is zero - normal calls are normally covered by the standard monthly charge for telephone service (assuming the the correct tariff has been selected). The call setup fee can represent a significant component of the cost of a call to an "ab-normal" (e.g. 084) number from a landline.



After some delay, the fair telecoms campaign news feed now contains images of the two newspaper front pages which drew so much attention to this issue on Monday, 11 November. The full content of the Sun coverage can also be viewed. Links to other media items will be available there shortly.

(P.S. The version of the news feed viewer linked to above is in beta test - any feedback would be welcome.)

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derrick
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #18 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:54am
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:38am:
derrick wrote on Nov 14th, 2013 at 11:45am:
The connection charge is payable for 01/02/03 numbers if not in a bundle, and not everyone has bundles, so I don't see it as a big issue as most people will know there is a connection fee to pay.

There are a few landline users with providers who do not base their tariffs on calls to 01/02/03 numbers being inclusive, and I am not sure that this odd bunch do pay call connection charges.

The normal cost of a normal call is zero - normal calls are normally covered by the standard monthly charge for telephone service (assuming the the correct tariff has been selected). The call setup fee can represent a significant component of the cost of a call to an "ab-normal" (e.g. 084) number from a landline.



I do not know of any "providers who do not base their tariffs on calls to 01/02/03 numbers being inclusive", if someone has a package the normal base one includes weekend calls, so calling outside of the package,(or if there is a provider that just does landline rental, then all calls),will incur a connection charge and a ppm.

I was with BT until very recently, weekend only package, I would have paid a connection charge had I dialed a number,(excluding freephone), outside this period.

I am now with Primus, evening and weekend, if I call a number, (excluding freephone), outside these times I will be charged a connection fee, I am not one of an "odd bunch" and resent the implication, plenty of people do not wish to have a 24/7 package as they make very few or no daytime calls!

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #19 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:11pm
 
derrick wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:54am:
… I am not one of an "odd bunch" and resent the implication, plenty of people do not wish to have a 24/7 package as they make very few or no daytime calls!

Indeed, you are not one of those who is used to paying call connection fees on calls to normal numbers - that was my point in response to that made in #14. For most people, call connection fees are only a feature of calls to "ab-normal" numbers. That is why they need to be highlighted when giving an indication of call costs for these numbers. I believe that call connection charges should not be dismissed as being something one expects to pay.

(The "odd bunch" I referred to was those who deliberately choose a tariff which involves paying a call connection charge on calls to "normal" numbers.)

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derrick
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #20 - Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:49pm
 
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:11pm:
derrick wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:54am:
… I am not one of an "odd bunch" and resent the implication, plenty of people do not wish to have a 24/7 package as they make very few or no daytime calls!

Indeed, you are not one of those who is used to paying call connection fees on calls to normal numbers - that was my point in response to that made in #14. For most people, call connection fees are only a feature of calls to "ab-normal" numbers. That is why they need to be highlighted when giving an indication of call costs for these numbers. I believe that call connection charges should not be dismissed as being something one expects to pay.

(The "odd bunch" I referred to was those who deliberately choose a tariff which involves paying a call connection charge on calls to "normal" numbers.)




But my reply was to post #11 where the poster was making a point about conn charges not being displayed to public service numbers, my reply was to say all calls outside a package attract a conn charge, (obviously  not freephone), so not a big issue as most,(all), callers should realise a conn charge exists on these calls, especially as they mentioned calls beginning 03,as these are the same as 01/02 numbers.

Why are they "abnormal numbers? If 01/02/03 these are normal numbers, as are some numbers beginning 0845/0870/0800, and they will attract a conn charge if dialed outside a package, (not 0800), ergo not a big issue!

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« Last Edit: Nov 15th, 2013 at 2:52pm by derrick »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #21 - Nov 16th, 2013 at 7:36am
 
derrick wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 10:54am:
SilentCallsVictim wrote on Nov 15th, 2013 at 8:38am:
[quote author=derrick link=1384174454/14#14 date=1384429558]
The connection charge is payable for 01/02/03 numbers if not in a bundle, and not everyone has bundles, so I don't see it as a big issue as most people will know there is a connection fee to pay.

There are a few landline users with providers who do not base their tariffs on calls to 01/02/03 numbers being inclusive, and I am not sure that this odd bunch do pay call connection charges.

The normal cost of a normal call is zero - normal calls are normally covered by the standard monthly charge for telephone service (assuming the the correct tariff has been selected). The call setup fee can represent a significant component of the cost of a call to an "ab-normal" (e.g. 084) number from a landline.


I am with Virgin and I have discontinued the calls unlimited package. We all have Virgin Mobiles with minute bundles.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #22 - Nov 19th, 2013 at 4:44pm
 
loddon wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
Our doughty campaigner David Hickson appeared on Sky News today at 12.30 to discuss the Public Accounts Committee Report.   Again David spoke well but missed an opportunity to make an important point.    The newscaster asked "where does the premium money go to ?   To the organisation called or to the phone companies?"   

David talked about the revenue accruing to the called organisation in some form or other but failed to point out that MOST of the cost accrues as revenue to the phone companies who scandalously overcharge unethically for calls to these numbers.

I am now happily in a position to quote the question and answer referred to, verbatim:

Quote:
Anna Jones: Is it true that some of that money will get through to the government, some of it to the companies that operate the phone lines?

DH: It does precisely that; on a 0845 number 2p a minute applies as a discount to the government on the cost of using those numbers; and that's at the expense of callers.

The interview was focussed on the behaviour of the government and the action it needs to take. The important issue of the secondary rip-off perpetrated by telephone companies when greedy service providers present them with the opportunity to further inflate the cost would have been covered if the issue of the extent of the cost to callers had been raised. A review of the fair telecoms campaign news feed will show that other media interviews have raised that point and the impact of the Access Charge is covered.


loddon wrote on Nov 11th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
We must not concentrate on the Service Charge and omit the major problem of the Access Charge in furthering our arguments.

The Public Accounts Committee report and the news coverage that day concentrated on the Service Charge. Measures to make the Access Charge transparent are coming, but in the meantime, I believe that our campaigning efforts are best focussed on eliminating improper use of 084 numbers, thereby removing both the Service Charge and the Access Charge from calls where neither should be incurred.

With the government firmly in the dock and the Prime Minister being reported as expressing concern, it would not have been politic to imply that the PM had little or nothing to worry about, because the major fault lies with the telephone companies.


It is also worth noting that discussing the current level of Access Charge can become complex with 0845 numbers, because it is highly variable between providers. e.g. for BT it is effectively negative, for Vodafone PAYG it is less than the charge for a call to a geographic rate number, for Virgin Media it is a combination of an irregular connection charge plus a per minute rate rate greater than that for 0844 numbers, for EE it can be 43p per minute!

The "Telephone Tax" imposed by government on callers is constant (for each type of number) and improper. A variable charge imposed by telephone companies on their customers cannot be described as a "tax".

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bigjohn
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #23 - Dec 27th, 2013 at 3:11am
 
The guidance document on the use of 08 numbers in the public sector  has now been published and can be read here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/268785...
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« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2013 at 3:15am by bigjohn »  

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bazzerfewi
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #24 - Dec 27th, 2013 at 1:36pm
 
It appears that we have government departments on the run, they propose to ban premium rate numbers for the benefit enquirer not before time Smiley Smiley http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/phones/2013/12/government-launches-premium... Smiley
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« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2013 at 6:48pm by Dave »  
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bigjohn
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #25 - Dec 27th, 2013 at 6:21pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Dec 27th, 2013 at 1:36pm:
It appears that we have government departments on the run, they propose to ban premium rate numbers for the benefit enquirer not before time Smiley Smiley http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/phones/2013/12/government-launches-premium... Smiley


Not just for benefit enquirers your notice if you follow the link i posted above your post. Wink
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bigjohn
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #26 - Dec 27th, 2013 at 6:37pm
 
The Man from Which is still not Happy !

"Richard Lloyd, executive director of consumer group Which?, said: "This guidance is a step in the right direction but it's disappointing no deadline has been set and public bodies will still be able to use expensive 0845 numbers."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25523465
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« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2013 at 6:38pm by bigjohn »  

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Public Accounts Committee report Premium Charges
Reply #27 - Dec 28th, 2013 at 12:12am
 
bigjohn wrote on Dec 27th, 2013 at 6:37pm:
The Man from Which is still not Happy !

I fear this apparent unhappiness derives from not truly understanding the reality of the situation.

Alternatively he is waiting to proclaim a victory for Which? when the actual plans of the particular departments are announced shortly.
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