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03 Rip Off (Read 26,311 times)
bazzerfewi
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03 Rip Off
Feb 18th, 2014 at 4:23am
 
I am a Virgin Media/Mobile customer and although I have all my services with Virgin they are still ripping people off.

I do not use my land line except when calling 0800/0808 numbers. Yesterday I thought I will put them to the test in regard to 03 numbers. I rang 150 was connected to India, I said can you please tell me how much I am charged for ringing 03 numbers from my landline. It is included in your call package the voice said, but I do not have unlimited calls I said, in that case then it is 0.11p connection fee and 0.11p per minute.

If I had called the tax office on my land line it would have cost me £1.31 and if I didn't have a call package on my mobile it would have been anything up to 0.20p per minute.

Maybe it is time to start a campaign in regard to unfair 03 charges in the same way the 0870 campaign was started all those years ago.
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Ian G
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Re: Rip Off Rates for non-inclusive calls
Reply #1 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 8:31am
 
The calls you wanted to make to that 03 number would not have cost you any more or less had you been calling an 01 or 02 number.

As there is no Service Charge within the call price, calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers should be the cheapest chargeable calls you can make. This will become very clear when the "unbundled tariff" for 084, 087 and 09 numbers is introduced in 2015.

When you do not commit to an inclusive call plan for calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers, the per-minute rate charged for these calls is usually very high. Nowadays, it makes sense to have an inclusive call plan on your landline or mobile or on both.

The out-of-plan call price seems extortionately high but it's merely set that way to make inclusive call plans seem more attractive. On a landline, it only takes about an hour of calls per month for an inclusive call plan to be cheaper.
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2014 at 11:13pm by Ian G »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #2 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 9:26am
 
I have opted not to pay the additional month fee for unlimited calls on my Virgin Phone because it cost something like £9 per month. We have 3 mobiles on Virgin and use them most of time. My point was that if a person is calling a 03 number from a fixed line most providers charge a connection fee and a per minute charge. In the example it would have cost the caller £1.31 and significantly more on a mobile. The point I was attempting to make was that 03 numbers on pay as you go mobiles or those without a package are very expensive just as 0870/71 etc were when this forum was started
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 01/02/03 Rip Off
Reply #3 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 9:36am
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 4:23am:
I am a Virgin Media/Mobile customer and although I have all my services with Virgin they are still ripping people off.

Maybe it is time to start a campaign in regard to unfair 03 charges in the same way the 0870 campaign was started all those years ago.

As explained by Ian G, the current reality is that if you use your phone to make calls (to "ordinary" numbers, at any particular time) it is almost invariably best to ensure that you subscribe to the appropriate package. Sadly not enough people understand this, so a campaign of information is certainly necessary.

Some people also fail to recognise that calls to 03 numbers cost exactly the same as calls to 01/02 numbers. It is therefore unquestionably fair for organisations such as HMRC to use 03 numbers and campaigning energies are required to reassure people on this point. It is therefore quite wrong to suggest that any alleged "rip-off" is particular to 03 numbers.

If you are arguing that telephone companies should be paid for calls to public services out of the public purse, when most callers pay have already paid for all of their calls 03 numbers, then that is a different point. I might say that this would be a rip off of the taxpayer.

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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #4 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 9:50am
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 9:26am:
The point I was attempting to make was that 03 numbers on pay as you go mobiles or those without a package are very expensive just as 0870/71 etc were when this forum was started

You have missed the point of this forum, and the site in general. Although some such issues are raised, it is not about the cost of telephone service in general, but the premium charge - the "Service Charge" to the benefit of the person called - which is involved when certain numbers are used (currently that does not include 0870, but this used to be the major culprit).

You are also getting close to stepping into some very muddy water. There are some providers who charge less on PAYG for calls to 0845 numbers than geographic (or 03) numbers. There are also cases, e.g. BT, where the penalty charge for calling outside the terms of the chosen package is greater for 01/02/03 numbers than for all 084 and many 087 numbers. These charges are totally perverse, because they invert the balance of the cost to the provider.

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Ian G
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Re: Rip Off Rates for non-inclusive calls
Reply #5 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 11:02am
 
The original issue with 0870 numbers was simply that they cost much more than an equivalent call to an 01 or 02 number and were not included in call packages.

Your issue with (01, 02 and) 03 numbers is that you are being charged a high rate for those calls if you do not sign up to a call plan. It is in no way a similar issue.
Presumably your provider also charges a high rate for calls to 084, 087 and 09 numbers.


Once the "unbundled tariffs" system is in place, I think things will become much more clear.

Tariffs will be something like:

01, 02, 03 - calls cost X p/min or inclusive in call plan (including termination charge much less than 0.1p/min)

07 mobiles - calls cost Y p/min or inclusive in call plan (including termination charge around 0.5p/min)

080 - free

084, 087, 09 - calls cost Z p/min Access Charge PLUS a per-minute or per-call Service Charge ("enhanced termination charge") to the benefit of the called party.

If X, Y and Z are either vastly different to each other or are set at an excessively high level consumers should have grounds to make a complaint.

At present it is not easy to compare prices because Z is hidden within the overall advertised call price.

For BT customers, Z is effectively zero and this will continue to skew their call prices until such time as the "NTS Retail Condition" is lifted.

Even then, BT may continue to offer inclusive 0845 calls, but it will be clear this is BT giving their own customers a discount on these calls.

(Calls to 0500, 055, 056, 070, 076 and non-standard mobile numbers ignored here.)
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2014 at 11:14pm by Ian G »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #6 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 11:59am
 
It is you that has missed my point SilentVictim, what I said was the low users will not benefit from the 03 calls because they are still charged the connection fee in my case 0.11p and the charge per minute 0.11p. Subsequently mobile users on pay as you go often pay even more.
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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #7 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 1:53pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 11:59am:
It is you that has missed my point SilentVictim, what I said was the low users will not benefit from the 03 calls because they are still charged the connection fee in my case 0.11p and the charge per minute 0.11p. Subsequently mobile users on pay as you go often pay even more.

As I read the topic of the thread, your point was that they were being "Ripped Off". Whether or not they benefit from the telephone conversation they choose to have is another quite separate issue, the point is that if calling a 03 number the only charge is that they accept from their telephone service provider.

Where call inclusive packages are offered (in some cases even with so-called PAYG arrangements), it is only those who make very few calls who do not find it worthwhile to subscribe - the break-even points are surprisingly low.

We may want to start a general discussion about the charges imposed for non-inclusive calls and for PAYG tariffs, but that would over all calls, not just those to 03 numbers.

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bigjohn
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #8 - Feb 18th, 2014 at 5:40pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 18th, 2014 at 9:26am:
The point I was attempting to make was that 03 numbers on pay as you go mobiles or those without a package are very expensive


I am confused why single out 03 numbers ? non inclusive 01/2 calls  are charged exactly the same and have been for a considerable time, Non Geographical Charging is a completely different kettle of fish.VM are doing exactly the same as what most other suppliers are doing as far as 01/02/03 numbers are concerned.

Easily avoided , get inclusive minutes, use a cheaper access number,or change to a cheaper supplier.  Wink
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Dave
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #9 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 8:03pm
 
I don't understand the point the OP is making. It strikes me that it may be that the point being made is not relevant to the title of the thread.

I suspect that your main point is that the incidental "per minute" cost of geographic rate (01, 02 and 03 equally) calls for pay as you go users is very high. This is a separate matter and not one specifically related to the uptake of 03 numbers.

I don't understand why you have singled out the Virgin Media landline service here as it is not a mobile service and it does offer an all-inclusive option which would mean the cost of such calls would be zero. As you have said, you make calls from your mobiles which is why you haven't opted for the inclusive package on your landline.


As an aside, if your policy is to make calls from mobile telephones then why might this vary for 03 as against 01 and 02? Surely it would be the same.
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« Last Edit: Feb 19th, 2014 at 8:04pm by Dave »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #10 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 8:58pm
 
The point that I was trying to make is that anybody that uses a package don't always use them to their full extent and they turn out expensive. The other point was that with a connection charge (in my example VM) or if it was pay as you go it would have been expensive.

This would never be the case for me because I calculate the best service for my needs but many callers do not have this knowledge.


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SilentCallsVictim
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Re: Geographic Rate Rip Off
Reply #11 - Feb 19th, 2014 at 10:26pm
 
bazzerfewi wrote on Feb 19th, 2014 at 8:58pm:
… many callers do not have this knowledge.

You have finally identified the "rip off" - it has nothing to do with 03 numbers as such, as it relates to the way in which many people are paying too much for all of their calls to geographic rate numbers.

The most inclusive packages are not "expensive", as you claim - well certainly not when set against the penalty charges imposed for "out of plan" calls to geographic rate numbers.

The fair telecoms campaign is working with Ofcom on this issue, using some valuable research done by DWP. We hope to draw more attention to this when DWP announces its switch to 0345, but with 0845 numbers retained to ease the impact of the "rip off" which some of their "customers" are suffering on their geographic rate calls.

I recognise that there will be some who will continue to publicise the phrase "03 rip off" when contributing to this thread, but then we campaigners have always had to compete with opponents and this discussion forum must accommodate all views.

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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #12 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 1:47pm
 
I was only attempting to point out the low income users on pay as you go mobiles and in many cases pay up to 0.20p per minute even when they use 03 numbers.
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Ian G
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Re: Rip Off Rates for non-inclusive calls
Reply #13 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:26pm
 
Unfortunately that seems to be the trend with everything these days.
Buy a 10-pack of crisps and it costs £2. Buy a single bag and they want 65 or 75p.

With phone calls it takes only about an hour per month from a landline or a bit less per month from a mobile before a "bundle" is cheaper.
Many pay as you go deals come with an inclusive allowance of 01, 02 and 03 calls. I suspect that trend will continue.

Three offers a pay as you go deal with calls to 01, 02 and 03 numbers priced at 3p/min. Tesco and others are around 8p/min.
There's no need to be paying 20p/min or more for these calls.
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« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2014 at 2:29pm by Ian G »  
 
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bazzerfewi
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Re: 03 Rip Off
Reply #14 - Feb 20th, 2014 at 3:09pm
 
Thanks for the update, seems that the trend is going in the right direction










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