SAYNOTO0870.COM - How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles

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How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Mar 1^st, 2014 at 10:57am

I can't be the first to ask this question, but I've looked and can't see. Is there a golden idiot-rule here? Many don't realsie, not all 07XXX are charged out at premium mobile rates, but at the still higher 07XXX NGN rates.

A 07405 number i dailled today cost me £3.20 for 14 minutes. It took me ten minutes to work out via my provider the tariff for 07405.
Now it used to be easy, 070XX was a follow-me number (at 50p a minute) and everythign else a mobile. This is not true today. The telcos bury the information with confusing charge bands, is there an idiot-rule or if not a database of premium-premium NGN 07XXX numbers?

Maybe in the form of a XLS or comma/tab delim file to do a quick, "Is it a mobile or not a mobile" looksee?

I can find plenty of places listing NGN numbers, but these include 0300s 0800s et al. None listing the extra-extra premium numbers as distinct form std. 07XXX

Is there a web site lsiting these? I know ofcom would have us believe they are simplifying it, biut in the meantime, how do you tell?

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 11:08am by 03700000000 »

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bbb_uk

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #1 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 1:41pm

I got the following information from Ofcom:-

070x Personal number
076x RadioPaging number

075x Mobile
077x Mobile
078x Mobile
079x Mobile

Not sure what 074x numbers are.

However, things also get complicated by the fact that each OCP (Originating Communications Provider) can charge what they like for these calls and even exclude certain number from a range and charge differently for that.

For example, if an unusual amount of traffic (ie calls) goes to a specific number 077x then the OCP may determine that this number is not used for calling a personal mobile and in fact maybe a dial-through provider and as such may then exclude that as being a mobile number and charge differently for it.

I use Magenta Systems CodeLook for looking up number ranges and which network the number was originally** allocated to.

I don't know how accurate this information is. Maybe other members may have a better accurate lookup.

** Due to number portability it's not easy to know which network a number is allocated to now so any information about an operator is considered to be the originating operator (ie the operator that originally requested the number range from Ofcom)

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 1:54pm by bbb_uk »

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bbb_uk

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #2 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 2:01pm

Actually looking at that Ofcom page, this Excel (.xls) sheet produced by Ofcom states which network the range originally belonged to.

This could be used to double check that Magenta Systems CodeLookup information is correct.

I see now that 07405 belongs to LycaMobile and is charged, according to BT, as FW7 WiFi Services.

I googled FW7 WiFi Service and found page from TalkTalk forum where it states
Quote:

These numbers are indeed routed differently. If you call them your call is actually dialling into a server which is linked with other worldwide servers owned by the network you are calling. Thus Lycamobile and truphone can offer cheap rates in selected countries they are based in. So in uk with its server on o2. You actually physically roam on them. a landline call is sent through their servers and actually looks like is routed via some sort of voip so will explain why it shows unavailable on my caller display also why talktalk rates it as a wi fi number that the call routes to a server rather than mobile company

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 2:15pm by bbb_uk »

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Dave

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #3 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 3:35pm

bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 1:41pm:

I use Magenta Systems CodeLook for looking up number ranges and which network the number was originally** allocated to.

I don't know how accurate this information is. Maybe other members may have a better accurate lookup.

** Due to number portability it's not easy to know which network a number is allocated to now so any information about an operator is considered to be the originating operator (ie the operator that originally requested the number range from Ofcom)

The Ofcom link you provided is the source data.

Number portability is irrelevant in cases of charging except where the call is being made from the donor operator or recipient operator (the former is the operator whose number block it is and the latter is the one where the call is terminated).

This is because calls are passed to the operator whose number block it is on, except in the two circumstances outlined. The industry decided not to have a central database of ported numbers (i.e. those that don't terminate on their native network) and so it is down to each operator to keep a database of numbers that have been ported in and a database of those ported out.

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Dave

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #4 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 4:57pm

The National Telephone Number Plan defines 071 to 075 inclusive and 077 to 079 inclusive as being for the purpose of "Mobile Services".

Said term is defined thus:
Quote:

‘Mobile Service’ means a service consisting in the conveyance of Signals, by means of an Electronic Communications Network, where every Signal that is conveyed thereby has been, or is to be, conveyed through the agency of Wireless Telegraphy to or from Apparatus designed or adapted to be capable of being used while in motion.

Most mobile numbers are allocated to "3", EE (Orange and T-Mobile), O2 and Vodafone. However, some are allocated to "other" providers, which evidently are Mobile Services.

O2 maintains a list of what it calls 07 non-mobile and call forwarding services. Whilst 07405 doesn't feature, quite a few others do.

The 3 Price Guide gives a list of what it calls "Non Standard 07 numbers": 074060 / 074061 / 074062 / 074067 / 0740671 - 9 / 074176 / 074181 / 0741821 - 9 / 074185 / 074411 / 074413 / 074414 / 074515 / 075200 / 075201 / 075203 / 075204 / 075205 / 075206 / 075207 / 075208 / 075209 / 075370 / 075371 / 075373 / 075375 / 075376 / 075377 / 075378 / 075379 / 075580 / 075581 / 075582 / 075590 / 075591 / 075592 / 075593 / 075594 / 075595 / 075596 / 075597 / 075598 / 075599 / 075710 / 075718 / 075890 / 075891 / 075892 / 075893 / 075898 / 075899 / 077000 / 077001 / 077442 / 077443 / 077444 / 077445 / 077446 / 077447 / 077448 / 077449 / 0775520 / 0775522 / 0775530 / 0775532-5 / 0775539 / 0775540-6 / 0775548-9 / 0775550 / 0775555 / 078220 / 078221 / 078223 / 078224 / 078225 / 078226 / 078227 / 078229 / 078644 / 78722 / 078727 / 078730 / 078744 / 078745 / 078920 / 078922 / 078925 / 078931 / 078933 / 078938 / 078939 / 079111 / 079112 / 079117 / 079118 / 079245 / 079246 / 079780 / 079781 / 079782 / 079783 / 079784 / 079785 / 079786 / 079788 / 079789

Out of interest, are these two the same?

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 4:59pm by Dave »

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bigjohn

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #5 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 5:35pm

Normally when you see a complaint about being charged to call a 07404/5 number its a T-Mob customer.T-Mob had a long run in with Lyca and others over expensive termination charges and use to charge for calls to these and other numbering ranges. This was resolved contracts taken out after 1/2/2012 include them in inclusive minutes and contracts taken out before dont see:

http://help.ee.co.uk/system/selfservice.controller?CONFIGURATION=1016&PARTITION_...

Other networks use to and still do include Lyca Numbers in inclusive minutes.

A lot of these type of numbers tend to be used for call forwarding to get cheaper intl calls. All networks tend to exclude numbers used for this purpose.

T-Mobile still bar such numbers used for call forwarding purposes as do Orange see http://studio.orange.co.uk/service_plans/paymonthly/075890m.html

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:02pm by bigjohn »

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #6 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:07pm

It would have been a lot easier if Ofcom would have specifically said certain number ranges are actual personal mobile numbers and certain other range is this WiFi service (as defined by BT).

It seems that 074x numbers could be either. I do hope it's just 074 and not other common mobile ranges like 075x, 078x, 079x Wink

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bigjohn

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #7 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:14pm

bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:07pm:

It would have been a lot easier if Ofcom would have specifically said certain number ranges are actual personal mobile numbers and certain other range is this WiFi service (as defined by BT).

It seems that 074x numbers could be either. I do hope it's just 074 and not other common mobile ranges like 075x, 078x, 079x Wink

When did Ofcom make things easier.

Some 075/078/079 numbers are already blocked when used for cheap call purposes.

EG See www.bollywoodtelecom.com whose 07822 151376 and 07924 897599 numbers are charged by 3.

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:20pm by bigjohn »

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03700000000 Newbie Offline Posts: 46 Gender:	Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles Reply #8 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:34pm It's horrible. There is no idiot rule here. I've just put those two lists together and whilst there is duplication they are not the same. I will try to post the list as one. But I've tried. I'm a bit geeky. This board won't accept my HTML. I will post a standard tab file thus...
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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #9 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:43pm

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03700000000 Newbie Offline Posts: 46 Gender:	Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles Reply #10 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:47pm The above is an amalgam of info. Premium-premium raters Of course your network may include some of these as std mobiles with associated std premium mobile rates. ie not premium-premium. But be suspicious of the above. Therein lies the problem..
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bigjohn Supreme Member Offline Posts: 2,316 Gender:	Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles Reply #11 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 7:00pm Look here http://www.saynoto0870.com/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1301138312 and your see their was a discussion about them yonks ago. Are you on T-Mobile by any chance.
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03700000000

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #12 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 7:12pm

Oh jeezz, it has been covered then.

Fool.

My providers. Virgin, T Mobile & 3 Variously.

If I look on the list on that other thread, my own 07742 number originally with 02 is also a super-premium rate to some callers. Now I can assure you it has no porting or suchlike and never did. There is no winning here?

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 7:40pm by 03700000000 »

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Dave

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Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles
Reply #13 - Mar 1^st, 2014 at 11:42pm

bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:07pm:

It would have been a lot easier if Ofcom would have specifically said certain number ranges are actual personal mobile numbers and certain other range is this WiFi service (as defined by BT).

What is the difference between these numbers on which this distinction could have been made?

It is only in recent years that, from landlines, mobile rates to the five main networks have fallen into line. This is entirely voluntary. What is behind other numbers not doing so? Is it down to higher termination charges or is it down to call retailers (OCPs) just imposing retail premiums? Or is there another reason?

bbb_uk wrote on Mar 1^st, 2014 at 6:07pm:

It seems that 074x numbers could be either. I do hope it's just 074 and not other common mobile ranges like 075x, 078x, 079x Wink

The only possible significance is that 074xxx numbers are generally newer-allocated prefixes. Maybe there are more of these "other" operators springing up in more recent years.

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« Last Edit: Mar 1^st, 2014 at 11:45pm by Dave »

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Dave Global Moderator Offline Posts: 9,902 Yorkshire Gender:	Re: How to spot 07XXX NGNs as against std. Mobiles Reply #14 - Mar 2^nd, 2014 at 4:34am This posting is left empty intentially.
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